Which accounting qualification is my best option? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

JEM · Member

Which accounting qualification is my best option?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Jem,

Do you intend to offer your services to others or only to the family business?

JEM · Member

Hi Shamus,

At this stage I think it'll only be to the company and not others, I've been self-employed before and whilst it was great (flexible time) the money side was a bit hit and miss! I think I'll stay employed for the foreseeable future :)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

From the sound of things the options that you should consider are

AAT - good all round qualification. Relatively quick to pick up. Regarded as an entry level accountancy qualification and is respected by accountants many of whome started out as AAT themselves. Has comprehensive coverage of everything that you need for a basic small business including tax. Requires a training provider for some modules. Allocate about two years to complete.

ACCA - top draw qualification thats easily accessible and no training provider required. At the later stages ridiculously difficult and suffers with regulation 8 preventing you offering anything other than bookkeeping services to non family businesses. That said, its the Rolls royce of the accessible qualifications covering financial and management accountancy and with plenty of free training materials / lectures to supplement studies. Allocate five to ten years to complete.

ICB/IAB - Really giving qualifications to the work that you are already doing. At the more advanced levels you are introduced to accountancy but they lack the corporate tax side of things that AAT has. (Not really any straight comparison to ACCA). Allocate about a year to complete.

CIMA - They're playing silly buggers at the moment upping each exam to 70% to score a pass and demanding that you have a degree just in order to study it. To my mind they're spoiling a perfectly good qualification (CIMA, if your reading this think on the old saying "if it aint broke don't fix it").
These current changes followed them leaving CCAB a couple of years back. A positive point is that they are more recognised in America than ACCA even though the ACCA syllabus is bigger and incorporates the entirety of the CIMA syllabus (The old asumption that CIMA is management accounting and ACCA is financial is actually incorrect as ACCA covers the full spectrum).

There is also FIA (Foundations in Accountancy) which is entry level ACCA leading to either a CAT qualification or giving exemptions from 3 of the 14 papers (the same as AAT would) allowing you to progress to the professional ACCA qualification. AAT is to my mind the better option but FIA does not require a training provider and gives a similar level of base knowledge.

I'm biased and would choose ACCA but for most AAT is sufficient for their needs.

The above are just my opinions. Other will put forwards ICB/IAB as the best options for you and eventually it all boils down to which one you decide that feels right for you.

That you are not looking to either sell yourself to clients or outside the family does leave the full spectrum of options open where for others their intention may restrict the above. For example, someone wanting to offer accounting services to micro entities should not consider ACCA or FIA due to regulation 8. Or someone looking to be employed by other practices should really consider only the accounting qualifications (AAT and up), not the bookkeeping one's.

Its a complicated minefield where its easy to make the wrong choice so you've done right in asking here.

Sure that the above has given you something to think about. Looking forwards to reading the follow up comments although I may not be around much for a few days to post many more replies (Dave/Brian, that means that your safe, lol).

talk soon,

Shaun.

JEM · Member

WOW! Ok, going to have to read this a few times, lol!

Thank you Shaun for the indepth answer, I hadn't though about ACCA at all. Off now to have a look at that :)

Many thanks,
Janine :)

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

JEM wrote:
Hi everyone, I hope you can help me as I have researched and googled so many sites I'm more confused than when I started!
Basically I would like to know which accounting qualification I should take. I have 5 years experience in a small family run business looking after their accounts on Sage. The books go to a qualified Accountant for year end accounts and journals etc. I would like to provide the company with Management Accounts and save them money by doing more, or possibly by doing the year end accounts for them. They would like more financial information about profit margins, costs and budgeting on a regular basis rather than 3 months after year end!
Which qualification would cover these areas best - IAB, ICB, AAT, CIMA....??
Thanks in advance

Hi Janine

Welcome to the forum and you are not on your own when it comes to being confused dot com, I have said it on here many times that although there is great advice to be found by lots of different people it gets to a point of information overload.

You are in a good position to know what you are hoping to achieve and you have mentioned all the awarding bodies you are looking at, all of which have a contact telephone number, what I would suggest is you call these awarding bodies (NOT TRAINING PROVIDERS) and have a chat with them about what you are looking to do and see what advice they have for you, with luck after you have spoken to them you will have a better understanding of which body is best for you. The best thing is not to run before you can walk. I hope this advice is of some small help and good luck with achieving your goals.

Dave

Training Link

www.training-link.co.uk

DaveCampbell · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
From the sound of things the options that you should consider are

AAT - good all round qualification. Relatively quick to pick up. Regarded as an entry level accountancy qualification and is respected by accountants many of whome started out as AAT themselves. Has comprehensive coverage of everything that you need for a basic small business including tax. Requires a training provider for some modules. Allocate about two years to complete.

ACCA - top draw qualification thats easily accessible and no training provider required. At the later stages ridiculously difficult and suffers with regulation 8 preventing you offering anything other than bookkeeping services to non family businesses. That said, its the Rolls royce of the accessible qualifications covering financial and management accountancy and with plenty of free training materials / lectures to supplement studies. Allocate five to ten years to complete.

ICB/IAB - Really giving qualifications to the work that you are already doing. At the more advanced levels you are introduced to accountancy but they lack the corporate tax side of things that AAT has. (Not really any straight comparison to ACCA). Allocate about a year to complete.

CIMA - They're playing silly buggers at the moment upping each exam to 70% to score a pass and demanding that you have a degree just in order to study it. To my mind they're spoiling a perfectly good qualification (CIMA, if your reading this think on the old saying "if it aint broke don't fix it").
These current changes followed them leaving CCAB a couple of years back. A positive point is that they are more recognised in America than ACCA even though the ACCA syllabus is bigger and incorporates the entirety of the CIMA syllabus (The old asumption that CIMA is management accounting and ACCA is financial is actually incorrect as ACCA covers the full spectrum).

There is also FIA (Foundations in Accountancy) which is entry level ACCA leading to either a CAT qualification or giving exemptions from 3 of the 14 papers (the same as AAT would) allowing you to progress to the professional ACCA qualification. AAT is to my mind the better option but FIA does not require a training provider and gives a similar level of base knowledge.

I'm biased and would choose ACCA but for most AAT is sufficient for their needs.

The above are just my opinions. Other will put forwards ICB/IAB as the best options for you and eventually it all boils down to which one you decide that feels right for you.

That you are not looking to either sell yourself to clients or outside the family does leave the full spectrum of options open where for others their intention may restrict the above. For example, someone wanting to offer accounting services to micro entities should not consider ACCA or FIA due to regulation 8. Or someone looking to be employed by other practices should really consider only the accounting qualifications (AAT and up), not the bookkeeping one's.

Its a complicated minefield where its easy to make the wrong choice so you've done right in asking here.

Sure that the above has given you something to think about. Looking forwards to reading the follow up comments although I may not be around much for a few days to post many more replies (Dave/Brian, that means that your safe, lol).

talk soon,

Shaun.

Lol Shaun that is great news, I cant talk for Brian but I may decide to take advantage of your leave of absence lol

Good Luck my friend, you know what I am talking about and as I said fingers and toes are crossed as are my eyes lol

Dave

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi Shaun,

Regarding CIMA.

To do the entry level CIMA Certificate in Business Accounting no formal qualifications are required.

http://www.cimaglobal.com/Study-with-us/CIMA-Certificate-in-Business-Accounting/

CIMA's Higher Apprenticeship in Management Accounting includes the certificate and work based experience.

http://www.cimaglobal.com/Our-locations/UK/find-out-about-joining-us/I-am-about-to-leave-school/The-CIMA-Higher-Apprenticeship-in-Management-Accounting/Apprenticeship-framework/

I think both the certificate and the apprenticeship would be highly relevant for the OP as would the AAT qualification. Having the CIMA certificate and three specific passes at CIMA operational level gives eligibility to apply for AAT membership. This is how I joined AAT.

http://www.aat.org.uk/membership/part-qualified-routes-aat-full-membership

Regarding CIMA pass mark, I don't know if they have changed this for the 2015 syllabus, but the current information on the website is 50% is the pass mark for all exams.

http://www.cimaglobal.com/Students/Exam-information/

Kind regards,

David.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hello Shaun,

Yes, CIMA are increasing the pass mark to 70% although they state that they do not expect that this will increase the amount of study preparation needed.

I suspect that it may be something to do with the format of the online exam. A pass mark of of 70% may be necessary to maintain the same level of rigour.

Link here for more info:

http://www.cimaglobal.com/Students/Student-e-magazine/Velocity-August-2014/Five-must-knows-about-the-2015-assessment/

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hello Shaun,

The attached graphic provides CIMA's interpretation of the comparative coverage of the syllabi of CIMA, ACCA and ICAEW.

Kind regards,

David.

-- Edited by David Ballantyne on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 04:47:39 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Arguing for ACCA only.

I've read some CIMA study texts. They are being a little generous to themselves but of course, if they wrote the document thats understandable.

Where do they get their size of partitions from. If that just an arbitory size to make CIMA seem bigger?

Financial accounting should be in Lilac

Financial reporting should be in Lilac

(I think that the above two would also be true of ACA).

Operations management IS covered by ACCA. Let be generous and move that one to purple rather than green.

They make no mention of corporate law. More to Lilac.

I've seen no major difference in management accounting as taught by CIMA over that taught under the ACCA syllabus.

I'd ignore it David, just seems like CIMA propaganda to me. Take it with a pinch of salt.

If ACCA or ACA wrote one it would look exactly the same except in their favour rather than CIMA's

kind regards,

Shaun.

JEM · Member

Thanks to all who have given their views, albeit I'm still confused lol! I hadn't really thought about the ACCA and ACA, I haven't even heard of FIA and to be honest I thought CIMA to be out of my league! I like the fact that ACCA is self study and easily accessible, slightly worried about the ridiculously difficult later stages but I suppose it's something to work towards, as they say "no pain no gain". I'm going to speak to the awarding bodies this week and see which truly suits me before I jump in.

Thank you all again for your help :)
Kind regards
Janine

YLB-HO · Guru

I have to disagree that IAB lack the corporate tax side of things, seeing as I have AAT & CIMA qualified (who haven't done Business tax, and in some cases personal tax, even though they are fully qualified members), doing the IAB personal & tax course! The IAB tax course includes inheritance tax, whereas most of the other accountancy bodies do VAT instead. VAT is covered from L1-L3, so don't need to do it at L4, so do inheritance tax instead. Also the IAB do offer a Level 4 Diploma in Accounting to International standards (study text is available to purchase from the IAB shop) which is a internationally recognized qualification.

I also will admit and have done so for more years than I can remember that I can tell the difference between someone who has done IAB v AAT. AAT may be recognized more, but personally I know there are things that IAB trained individuals understand, that AAT trained individuals don't seem to understand.

Unfortunately the IAB don't "shout" about their members knowledge enough, but then I guess they are too busy making sure they meet government standards, than spending lots of time doing lots of marketing......

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi Frauke,

I don't know the history behind this but I have been puzzled for a while as to why the chartered bodies sponsored the creation of the AAT when the IAB/IFA already existed. I guess there must be some "marketing" reason behind this. Do you know?

Bearing in mind that IAB and AAT have a similar offering, as with any business, the one with the better marketing is likely to get ahead.

I have noticed that the IAB site has been revamped recently and looks much better. However, the IAAP site could do with a re-vamp and more content on it to give the impression of being a substantial professional body.

Regarding the IAB Level 4 Tax qualification, I might possible do that. I have been looking for a tax refresher course that included inheritance tax and was wondering about ATT, but the IAB course may fit the bill better. Thanks for letting me know.

Kind regards,

David.

YLB-HO · Guru

Hi David,

I have no idea about the history, especially as I think it was the ICEAW who sponsored the IFA to become a full member of IFAC.... I suppose professional bodies politics got in the way all those years ago. But then ATT is only 25 years old! I remember when they first started, as at the time it was very difficult to join CIOT.

I don't have time anymore to get involved as much with any of my professional bodies for nearly a year now (too much work!), so I only know about what is in the public domain.

I must admit I like the Level 4 Tax qualification. It has enough detail, and covers enough to get a really good grounding/specialist knowledge in the subject without going overboard with too much of the boring stuff. LOL

Nini · Newbie

Hi everyone

I hope someone can help me as I am completely confused... I have not studies anything in finance, so I am a beginner in everything.. Not working in a finance environment as well.

I am thinking of doing the CIMA qualification, because it is a well known qualification and something completely different to a BComm and Hons in Cost & Management Account / Financial Management.

But I am however very worried that it is very specialised in COSTING and that is to difficult for me as I have no experience etc. I was looking at the ICB Accounting course as well to start off with and then thereafter I can try to do the CIMA route...

What I need is just an honest opinion if I can do CIMA without any experience/qualification already in accounting or something similar....??

It doesn't help if I do it, my mind is right, and then it is way to difficult for me... Will it help if I do ICB and then CIMA??

confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse

Regards

Nini

RobH · Expert

Nini, any particular reason for looking at CIMA rather than say ACCA other than it is well known? I guess it would be easier to help if we knew what your ambitions were? Are you looking for an accounting position in a manufacturing business (CIMA may be best for that), a job in practice (ACCA probably better), going self -employed (Maybe look at AAT, ATT, ICB or IAB)...

Nini · Newbie

Hi Rob Thank you so much for your response.... i went for tests to see what im good at/ what type of personality i have etc... sorry dont have the name for it in english now... the guy mentioned CIMA as it is a shorter course than doing a degree & it is very well known & very good(also unique)... i am still determining what my ambitions are.... but i definitely have a very strong interest in business/figures etc.... but i want to work with people. so how would you know if your rather made for manufacturing? Thats the question.... the reason why i thought about doing ICB, is because it is a safer route to first see how i do and then thereafter i can do CIMA? or would you rather recommend ACCA? You also mentioned working in a practice then..?? I think that would more be me... i want to be in contact with people as well.... any further advice??

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Nini,

What do you mean by CIMA being unique? Its just like ACCA but smaller.

If its just gaining the knowledge what about the FIA qualification from the ACCA?

The problem with ACCA and FIA is ACCA regulation 8 which would prevent you from offering any services beyond bookkeeping to the public unsupervised by a suitably qualified accountant. That aside, ACCA is second to none.

kind regards,

Shaun.

NickCraggs · Guru

Going back the the inheritance tax issue. Would you feel comfortable doing this after a level 4 qualification, or level 5 in the case of ATT. I did this under ICAEW and I don't think that i would like to get involved with inheritance tax, although I must admit I haven't had any real world experience of it. Is it just a case of covering it so you have an awareness of it.

I admit my knowledge of it is limited, I believe ICAEW is the only accountancy body which can actually regulate its members for probate work.

RobH · Expert

Nini, if speed is of the essence then maybe dipping a toe into ICB/IAB, AAT or as Shaun says FIA may be a good starting point. CIMA and ACCA will conceivably take as long as a degree but in my mind are a superior qualification (so long as you are going into accountancy/business). Are you based in the UK?

YLB-HO · Guru

Hi Nick,

The IAB qualification includes Inheritance tax & trusts! Not just inheritance tax. My fault for missing "trusts" off. Probate work is only a very small part of inheritance tax & trusts, which anyone can do themselves should they choose to do so. Even someone with no qualifications.

The students who do the IAB qualification need to have a reasonably good understanding on how it all works, including the implications of trusts, through to which forms are required and by when. But just because you do a qualification, and have the knowledge, it does not mean you don't have to do the work.

I find it useful, to often bring others in for specialized work when advising clients. I have sat in on meetings, and on many occasion found my knowledge was actually greater than the specialist. I would never dream of telling them their job, but it can be useful to have the knowledge so I can discuss other options, with them, and to ensure the implications are covered in sufficient detail for the client.

The IAB tax qualification is at Level 4, because all tax qualifications are at Level 4, in the format the IAB one is done. I questioned why it was when I first started teaching it, as I thought the IAB qualification should be Level 5. That was the answer I was given.

-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 12th of September 2014 03:57:20 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I would say longer Rob.

Average time to pass ACCA is about 5 years but many need longer.

With a degre isn't it something like 2-3 years?

With ACCA you can do a short thesis (6000 word) to get a degree after the first nine... Its certainly not an easy route to a BSc as those nine are more than equivalent of a degree course.

You're completely right on the superiority. At the later stages ACCA is at MBA level.

RobH · Expert

A degree is normally 3 years full time, part time probably 5-6 years. My ATT qualification was harder than my BA in drinking/economics.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi,

The CIMA qualification is broadly marketable across all sectors outside of practice, not just manufacturing. I have worked in manufacturing, travel, facilities management, consultancy, NHS and social housing to name but a few.

Kind regards,

David.

Nini · Newbie

Hi guys

What I mean with CIMA being unique is, it is a qualification that not a lot of people has, I think it would be safest to do the ICB course and then start working as a debt/credit controller or in finance? then thereafter I can decide, go ACCA or CIMA?

the only thing with ICB is, is it recognised and will I not struggle to get a job in finance... ??

Time is a factor, but it is not such a big issue, If I have to study longer then I have to... I just want to work myself up and I need to first determine what direction I would like to go before I just start doing CIMA, so I believe if I have done ICB and I am working in a finance/accounting environment.. I will definitely decide whether to go CIMA or ACCA?

No I am in South Africa :)

Hope this will work...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

There's recently been a discussion on the Linkedin ACCA members forum (sorry, its not an open forum) in relation to ACCA recognition in South Africa and it seems one of those places in the world where local variants and CIMA are currently winning out over ACCA.

The advice given here tends to be quite UK specific so how CIMA/ACCA is seen here will not be how it is seen where you are.

For the UK CIMA is not unique, its a similar level as ACCA and less rare than ACA. But for South Africa it would seem that CIMA would be the preferred choice.

Good luck with whatever route you go down,

kind regards,

Shaun.

RobH · Expert

I've no idea on numbers but I would have thought that CIMA would be dwindling away in the UK along with our manufacturing base. I did the first couple of stages of CIMA when I first started out as I was working in industry. It was an engineering firm and the accounts office was the cleanest part of the building but still there was a layer of oily grime everywhere. There was a guy of indeterminate age who chain smoked in the office who was the 'cost accountant'. I could never really see what he was doing through the cloud of smoke! I had been there about 6 months and I was mainly doing sales ledger and credit control when the 'Financial' accountant walked out and I was promoted. I didn't have a scoobie what I was doing but my salary doubled over night! I left about a year later knowing I never wanted to be an accountant!

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi Rob,

CIMA has its origins in manufacturing, but is a broadly marketable qualification as I mentioned in a previous post in this thread.

Links to a couple of promotional articles below:

http://www.fm-magazine.com/news/cima-news/cima-sees-record-growth#

http://www.cimaglobal.com/About-us/Press-office/Press-releases/2014/CIMA-celebrates-impressive-global-growth-in-20/

Kind regards,

David.

RobH · Expert

Thanks David, that's interesting, hopefully word is getting round!

YLB-HO · Guru

The Armed Forces used (still?) offer CIMA as the preferred accountancy qualification. The way to qualify is more suited to the more nomadic life of a military accountant than ACCA. I don't know if they still do it, but I remember soldiers could take the CIMA exams at Worthy Down, which certainly made it easier to do no matter where they were posted in the world.

Its only drawback is the lack of personal/business tax (none) included in the qualification. So it is possible to set up in practice with no tax knowledge with the CIMA qualification.

I am sometimes a little sceptical about CIMA, as I was told by one of their members, she was not an accountant but a financial analyst. Didn't have a clue about accountancy could analysis accounts in detail. What I liked about her was she was honest about her limitations. But at the same time I do know some fantastic CIMA accountants, I guess its all about the route the individual took in getting the qualification. One I know is brilliant at turning around companies and is a really experienced accountant....

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi Frauke,

Your assessment of CIMA seems reasonably correct to me. As with any of the accounting qualifications, you do your exams, but it is what you actually do in the career path you take that defines what skills you have, all rounder, specialist, costing, financial accounts, treasury, management accounting etc.

When I did my tax exam it was a stand alone subject focused on corporation tax, VAT and PAYE, i.e. the knowledge required as an internal employee of a company. The new syllabus appears to have the same emphasis.

I read on a forum somewhere that CIMA recommends that members who want to go into practice should study for the ATT qualification. You mention that you have some studying the IAB qualification so many clearly recognise the need to broaden and refresh their knowledge.

On the off chance that anyone wants to take a look, I have attached the CIMA 2015 syllabus.

Kind regards,

David.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers for that David,

Just had to swap it over to the big screen as quite a wide document (and 51 pages of it).

When you see it laid out and start browsing through it you can really feel the different emphasis of the same subject as opposed to ACCA.

I didn't come accross any subject that wasn't covered in the ACCA syllabus but it just felt as though the emphasis was in a totally different place.

Much of the syllabus seems to be built around a mix of studying Johnston, Scholes and Whittingtons Exploring Corporate Strategy and Drury's Management and Cost accounting which are also set books for ACCA.

Where things differ is that my impression is that you need to know those one's inside out where ACCA is more about knowing financial reporting standards inside out but having a detailed appreciation of the contents of those two books.

I didn't see the same sort of emphasis on ethics as it seems to be a seperate learning outcome rather than embedded in everything. Taxation is covered as part of financial reporting rather than a seperate subject, financial reporting is not covered in any depth and audit is missing (and its audit that really tests one's financial reporting knowledge).

It was nice seeing project management methodologies specifically mentioned in the CIMA syllabus. I refered to Prince2 in one of my exams but to the best of my knowledge its not actually in any of the ACCA study texts.

I've never come across Bayes Theorem. So there's one for CIMA... unless its in P4 which I didn't do.... Actually, thinking about it an awful lot of the CIMA syllabus is in P5 which is one of the ACCA options papers so there in perhaps lies the real difference.

If you do CIMA then you must have done the subjects. If you do ACCA then you may have done those subjects if you took P4 and P5. (Advanced financial management and advanced performance management) rather than P6 and P7 (Advanced Tax and Advanced Audit). I did P5 and P7 so a bit of each.

All in all, thanks for sharing. Just emphasises what a good qualification CIMA is especially (but not restricted to) if you are working on the corporate side of the fence.

I still don't regret choosing ACCA but looking at the CIMA syllabus I certainly wouldn't have felt bad if I had chosen that route instead.

All the best,

Shaun.