Like Joanne I tend to think of AAT as an excellent start (or even end) point.

Ask the accountant that you spoke to what they actually meant by bookkeeper as many think of AAT as a bookkeeping qualification (where its actually more of a crossover qualification and many accountants start with AAT before moving up to ACA or ACCA).

Now, I'm not writing off either of the other options as, as you say, you are not looking to keep open the option of employment.

Both ICB and IAB are similar qualifications. ICB is somewhat more vocal. IAB is older (ICB wwas formed by an ex IAB manager.

And thats another thing. You mention your intention is accountancy rather than bookkeeping. There is quite an incestuous relationship between IAB and IFA and you will find that many take that route into SME accountancy.

ICB now cover quite a lot of entry level accountancy in their qualification to the point where I do not believe that they can legitimately refer to the qualification as bookkeeping anymore (bookkeeping only goes as far as trial balance but ICB goes all of the way to final accounts... Whether they should is a whole different debate).

The mistake not to make is looking at the qualifications and thinking which one will be fastest. Go with the one which will teach you the most for the level of client that you are looking to service.

Sure that you've already done your homework over professional bodies but if not, thing of it as a tree.

At the entry level you would have the likes of course

Up a level you will have Pitmans, City & Guilds, OU course B190, AAT ABC bookkeeping, IAB and ICB

Go up further and you hit AAT, ATT, CAT, FIA, ACCA-X

Little further up and you get to AIA, IFA, ICPA

Towards the top ACCA and CIMA

And sitting at the top of the tree, ACA (ICAEW, ICAS, CAI) and CIOT

Some of those branches at a level are higher than others. There are also other qualifications but I think that the above are the most comon ones currently available.

There is nothing wrong with any person studying anywhere on that tree. The main thing is to ensure that you are happy that the level that you choose is the right level for you and your aspirations.

Considering your age and that you don't realise how much that there is to this yet I would actually start with AAT level II. Only pay for that level for starters and make sure that you enjoy what you are doing.

Good distance training providers to look at for AAT would be First Intuition and Eagle Education (who also does IAB).

No matter what qualification you go for good luck in your studies and looking forwards to chatting as you progress and eventually start your own business.... Just checked, your in London, far enough away from my turf to wish you luck in your business! lol.

Hope you enjoy posting here,

All the best.

You mention in part that you have chosen ICB as you can do it from home. Just to clear up any confusion - you can do AAT at home - via distance learning, self teaching, live on-line lectures and/or pre-recorded lectures with loads of support and access to tutors. In fact - you can do it a lot quicker this way than going to a college to complete the AAT, if required.

Cheshire, I realise my previous post was ambiguous and yes I know one can study both from home.  I have chosen ICB because my understanding is that I can start earning (self-employed) without having to work for someone else for a year as in the case of AAT.  Due to being in my late fifties I imagine a lot of accountants would prefer someone younger so don't want to take this risk. 

Hi Shaun,
I wonder if going for ICB is a combination of a confidence (lack of) in my own abilities and the cost of AAT training which is much higher and takes longer and I imagine that I could start earning earlier with ICB than AAT and carry on to my retirement and probably beyond. Money is tight at the moment and the investment in AAT training is much higher than ICB though I appreciate that the rewards are greater. Please note that I have one joint degree in Maths/Biology not 2 degrees and that was a long time ago so studying again feels rather scarey especially as my memory is not what it used to be. With ICB I know I could do it. If all goes well with ICB on the exam front is there not a way of doing say the ICB level II and III and then going to AAT route with dispensation for some of the exams?

As an aside I have noticed that a number of websites are named as bookkeepers but those working for the company are AAT trained. Is that just a way of getting new clients?

Sorry Joanne that I called you Cheshire. Thanks to Shaun I now know where to look.

Regards
Charlotte.

Hi Charlotte,

one persons accounting technician, anothers bookkeeper.

Many accountants tend to regard AAT as a bookkeeping qualification which also prepares those who take it to move up later to an accountancy qualification.

The reasoning is that the AAT route is the route that many Chartered and Chartered Certified started out and they expect those who follow to tread the same footsteps.

To a certain extent they also expect those who they deal with on a self employed basis to be AAT or PQ (PQ means part qualified with one of the accountancy qualifications).

I think that the ICB have cottoned onto this and the qualification now is not the same as it was a few years ago. I would say that it is now trying to copy the AAT qualification and has abandoned the idea of bookkeeping being seperate from accountancy (it never was, it's the foundations of it).

Being part of this site I feel a little closer to those just getting into the profession and (on an unofficial basis) having tried old exam papers of all of the major players I know that things are not quite as black and white as some accountants may judge.

ICB and IAB are much better than many further up the tree give them credit for.

The harsh reality though is that if your business model means that you will be dependant upon finding work from accountants then they rate people on three things. That they recognise their qualification (so AAT or perhaps PQ ACCA), they respect proven experience or you are an expert in software that they need and cannot source easily from one of the other two criteria. Their perfect self employed bookkeeper will tick all of the boxes.

Clients are different. Qualifications mean much less to them than to people within the profession (without any evidence of qualification if you call yourself an accountant clients will believe you! Same syndrome as put on a white lab coat and people will believe that you are a doctor!!!). For this reason many people with bookkeeping qualifications work with small businesses (either in terms of turnover or number of employee's) to build the experience which in time will make them appealing propositions to accountants.

I do think that it does a bit of a disservice to the ICB that people choose them because they are cheap by comparrison to alternatives.

There is no guarantee of employment or finding clients with any qualification. To my mind the faster that you can be earning the more that I would avoid a qualification as there is a huge knowledge base to this profession that one needs to be armed with before trying to sell accountancy services (everything beyond trial balance is accounting).

I am not for one moment suggesting that something like ACCA or ICAEW is where everyone should end up. An AAT person who decided to go MAAT is an SME accountant, there is absolutely no reason for them to move up to a different qualification. But, similarly, if accountants believe that the lowest level of recognisable qualification is AAT is it really wise to choose something cheaper and faster unless you are not looking to keep the door open to outsourced bookkeeping from local chartered and chartered certified practices?

I am not saying that such does not happen but where it does I am saying that it is generally because of experience / prior exposure rather than qualification.

Many people go through the lack of confidence at taking the first exams that they have taken since they were at school or University. You will quickly start learning again and get your confidence back.

On the money front, talk to a good training provider to see what financial assistance may be available to you. You may be eligable for something like the 24+ training loan (only available for QCF recognised level III and IV courses. ICB is not recognised by QCF) which doesn't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k per annum. I'm not saying that the loan will be available to you but at least check it out before making your decision.

All of the above said, there is nothing wrong with the ICB qualification and it leads to many people running succesful SME focused businesses. I just want you to go into the decision having properly explored all of the alternatives before drawing your conclusion based up which qualification fits your requirements the best rather than just fitting your bank balance the best, as, as mentioned above, there may be ways around that.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

p.s. You mention dispensations for AAT but what you will actually find is that a training provider will ask you to sit a skills test (for free) to determine the level to start you at which will generally be either level II (no exemptions) or level III (the training provider is confident that you comp[letely understand bookkeeping). There are very, very, very few people who get exemptions from level III AAT.

The Cyclist wrote:

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Hi Shaun,
I wonder if going for ICB is a combination of a confidence (lack of) in my own abilities and the cost of AAT training which is much higher and takes longer and I imagine that I could start earning earlier with ICB than AAT and carry on to my retirement and probably beyond. Money is tight at the moment and the investment in AAT training is much higher than ICB though I appreciate that the rewards are greater. Please note that I have one joint degree in Maths/Biology not 2 degrees and that was a long time ago so studying again feels rather scarey especially as my memory is not what it used to be. With ICB I know I could do it. If all goes well with ICB on the exam front is there not a way of doing say the ICB level II and III and then going to AAT route with dispensation for some of the exams?

As an aside I have noticed that a number of websites are named as bookkeepers but those working for the company are AAT trained. Is that just a way of getting new clients?

Sorry Joanne that I called you Cheshire. Thanks to Shaun I now know where to look.

Regards
Charlotte.

---

Hi Charlotte

No worries - I answer to anything, including oi you!

I have raised the issue before on this site that many clients do not actually know what ICB and IAB are.  In fact there are a lot who dont know the the difference between chartered Accountants, chartered certified or not.   I for one have a thriving business and have never been asked by a client, no -not once, what qualifications I have nor which association I belong to.

This doesnt mean that I am saying go it alone, just that the choice of course does not determine from the publics point of view what business you will necessarily get as self employed.  Certainly if you were looking at Employment I would say go AAT - employers really dont know what IAB/ICB are - see some of the other threads on here about that debate!

You can start earning quickly with AAT as Shaun has indicated and the exams do not need to take longer - the pace of learning and taking the exams is completely up to you - Im sure the ICB is the same and Trevor can advise on that score.  Certainly with AAT you could complete all level exams in one week if you so choose, although most people dont tend to.  Have you tried the skills test on the AAT site?  This will give you a flavour of what it is about.  You could start at a higher level than level 2 dependent on the results of the skills test, although I would suggest you dont if you have no background in this business as the first few courses give you the cornerstone on which everything else is built.

There are ways to keep the cost down - Shaun has suggested some great books which can be purchased really cheaply on various other threads.  Or if you want to go the training provider route   try looking at the First Intuition site and Nick has commented only today (or was it yesterday) about the Basic offering, which is a really good price and leaves you to learn with books but no lectures, although you can move up on the pricing option to get lectures if this suits you better.  You can always do one year with the all in method and once you have regained that learning bug maybe switch to the basic method for the next level.  Nick and Neil (who are both members on this site) will tell you more.  Look for Nick Craggs or Spam Kebab.  By the way - both have nominated and shortlisted in this years BKN awards - have a chat and take it from there.

 

 

-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 9th of September 2015 12:16:49 PM

Hi Trevor,

If people are passing that exam already then sounds as though the ICB need to update their website as there are still only two level IV exams up there.

the AAT is backed by the major accounting bodies (ICAEW, CIMA, etc) which also used to include ACCA as well until they sp0lit off and set up the CAT qualification (which spawned FIA and ACCA-X).

The arguement is that ICB is not a bookkeeping qualification as it does not stop at trial balance. In fact, with the exception of some entry level courses can you actually think of any qualification that could truly refer to itself as bookkeeping?

You say that there is no right or wrong path in training but the issue is that too many start training thinking only about the next step, not where they want to be several years down the line and some qualifications cn be mistakes.

As examples.

People who become MAAT and suddenly find that they cannot offer the services that they could before they upgraded their membership.

People who take the ACCA route not realising the restrictions that regulation 8 will put on them.

People who take ICB expecting it to give them exemptions from higher qualifications where it doesn't offer as many as they assumed.

there are all sorts of potholes and pittraps to be traversed to get to where you want to be and we just try to make tsure that people are armed with all of the information rather than making assumptions based on reading what they think they are getting into rather than what the scenario really is.

Personally I don't like the way that exams seem to be going. I much prefer the lead up to set sittings twice (actually, now four) times a year.

I thought that IAB had always been flexible? Just an impression, I don't know as I've not sat their qualification. I agree that AAT was always more rigid showing once more the same sort of structure of the accountancy qualifications that helped create it.

You may be under the wrong impression on the cost front. I did self study rather than distance learning and all that you need is to buy the right study materials and be self motivated to learn. Study materials were between £70 and £100 per paper and then you also had the exam fee's so if you passed each paper first time ACCA doesn't have to cost any more than getting to MAAT or MICB... Although, it will take much longer.

But then again, very few pass all of their papers first time at that leve so you need to factor the costs of failure into any equationl!

Nick posted some info yesterday about self studying AAT from study packs to keep costs down.

Isn't ICB the same in that you don't need a training provider although of course if you are new to this its advisable to have one as a safety net.

As for when to start, if you are self tutoring then you set the timetable. There are no academic years (or weekends! lol).

All the best,

Shaun.

Hi John,

as an AAT student you can offer your services to the public provided that you make no mention of any affiliation with the AAT.

On passing all of the exams if you move up to MAAT you must be a MIP in order to practice whether you make any mention the AAT or not.

Not everyone who moves up to MAAT is able to immediately gain MIP status and that causes the cunundrum.

Just one of many little gems that sit out there as pit traps for the unwary.

The motto of the tale. don't move up to MAAT until you are also in a position to get your MIP status.

HTH,

Shaun.

Hi Charlotte,

Interesting that the AAT are thinking of developing their bookkeping qualification. Sure that you have seen that the course already exists here :

www.aat.org.uk/find-a-course/aat-bookkeeping-and-computerised-accounting-courses

So from what you say they are going to expand upon that.... Although, is that simply saying that those currently working as bookkeepers whilst they work towards the full AAT qualification will now have the option to use their letters rather than simply having their MLR through HMRC?

I think that having two types of AAT practice certificate may confuse matters rather than close gaps with people on the lesser qualification benefiting greatly by association with the AAT name.

It sounds as though you have made up your mind as to which way you are looking to go and I wish you the very best of luck in your carreer.

Take what you are told by training companies and the lower professional bodies with a pinch of salt as remember that their income is dependant upon you signing up with them.

With the ICB they have their own forum. see www.bookkeepers.org.uk (the same as this site but without the hyphen (we were here first)).

Have a read of quite a few posts over there. I think that you can sign up as a visitor to ask questions although a lot of the posts will not be accessible by you as a visitor. Determine for yourself whether its fantastic support. If you can post questions over there I would certainly ask people on the ground floor whether their buddy program actually works. Are people finding buddies? Is it just study buddies (basically people at the same level of knowledge) rather than mentors? It certainly sounds like a good idea and I'm inquisitive how its working in the real world.

If / when you do go down that route don't forget to keep visiting us over here to keep us updated on your progress,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

p.s. if you have not decided on a training provider yet Ideal Schools and Training Link both do ICB courses

And if you change your mind and go AAT then try First Intuition, Eagle Education or Premier training