My client is missing PInv - PLEASE HELP - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Plusside Ltd · Member

My client is missing PInv - PLEASE HELP

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

You say no Purchase invoices but do you have receipts?

Many smaller businesses have glove boxes absolutley stuffed full of reseipts that they have forgotten to bring in.

I quite often find myself retrospectively creating Purchase Invoices in VT from the receipts as no matter how much you beat them with a large stick they always forget again by the next time that they buy anything for the business.

Never expose yourself and if you do complete documentation for which there is no supporting documentation (other than evidence of a payment) then ensure that you get the client to sign confirmation of the transaction and also ensure that your engagement letter emphasises that the bookkeeping and accounts are their responsibility (your's is simply a compilation engagement. The responsibility always remains theirs unless you do not bring any errors and ommissions to their attention).

Just to emphasise against the above that there needs to be alternate evidence such as a receipt before you can create the Purchase Invoice.

If there is no evidence of where it went for money coming out of the business then it goes to drawings / DLA regardless of the protestations of the business owner.

And the overriding golden rule is that for VAT registered companies there has to be a valid VAT receipt.

HTH,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Michele I agree with Shaun on the processing etc. the one thing to note with this job is that it's a miracle if you get every piece of paper from every client. I always produce a list of missing Pis/receipts on a spreadsheet and send this to clients requesting they get everything for me. Most will go and find a fair chunk of them easily, but there are always some on that list that lurk. But you will be surprised at how many can be located even 6 months later so it's a handy checklist for you to keep an eye on. ( I add date processed through the Bank on the list). Telling clients you will DLA (or put it drawings) always focuses their minds, or a comment to the effect that you can't keep their tax bill down without a proper receipt does. You have to be a bit of a nag!! Sorry for any typos, no glasses and on a rickety train going into Manchester!

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Hi Michele

I too would tread with caution. However, if the client is not VAT registered, and the bank statement details the supplier being paid, it does give you "some" proof. So fuel, post office, phone, etc isn't too much of an issue. If he is a plumber and you see B&Q/plumbers merchant payments, it would be fair to post those to materials. You can search the name you see on the statement, on Google, and that will give you an idea of the business. If you feel comfortable that you know what the expense must be, get all those processed, and then maybe go after the rest, with the threat that it will go against the directors account. You could offer to contact the plumbers merchants to get a closing creditor statement at the year end, that will allow you to accrue for anything unpaid... this cost likely to be the biggest creditor.

Of course, when you send him the draft accounts, you need to be clear that, whilst you have posted expenses that don't have an invoice, that doesn't mean HMRC would accept it, in the event of an investigation. You might also want to give him a list of the transactions you have "assumed", and ask for him to let you know if he feels any are wrong. This might not be practical if there are a lot of transactions, so you could also simplify a little and say "I have assumed B&Q is materials" "I have assumed fuel payments hold no personal items such as food" - that sort of thing.

Buy him a box file, tell him to keep it in his van, and throw all paperwork into it... if you go to the trouble of spending a few quid on the file, you might guilt trip him into using it ;) Its worked for me before now

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I've just realised that when answering any question on the site we three have become the usual suspects, lol.

Nice when we all concur but at the same time each post add's something slightly different to the others.

Plusside Ltd · Member

Great, I guess that's what I already knew just thought I was missing a magic trick and its nice to bounce things off you guys for confirmation.

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

I am wondering where everyone has gone?? Not that I am complaining about being stuck here with just the you two!! Hmm.... we wouldn't have to share cake with as many, meaning bigger share each

Plusside Ltd · Member

OOOOO, what kind of cake? I'll get the tea and coffee sorted!

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

I make a mean carrot cake...

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

LOL not sure why that has posted a side on view! The image is portrait!

Peasie · Expert

FoxAccountancyServices wrote:
Buy him a box file, tell him to keep it in his van, and throw all paperwork into it...

I'm doing a CIS subbie at the moment and I think he has done just that. Plus a couple of remittance advices from 2011 turned up as well.

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Haha hey you! Where ya been?!!

I have clients that throw everything in, even the security details letters for the their bank accounts!! LOL

Plusside Ltd · Member

MMMmm Carrot cake and cuppa coffee sounds like the perfect afternoon!

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

The photo is the hummingbird bakery recipe.. you cant go wrong with it! If I can make a cake that looks (and tasted) like that, anyone can!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

FoxAccountancyServices wrote:
I have clients that throw everything in, even the security details letters for the their bank accounts!! LOL

Competition!!!! biggrin

Best thing that we've found in a clients box file.

I'll go with an expired cheque for £3500 stapled to the back of an invoice! And this was not a big company!

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Shame it wasn't in date and blank! (or are you really sat in the bahamas with a pina colada, and that explains why you have so much time for us! LOL)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Whoa!!!!!!!!!! Someone is stepping on my patch!!!!!! There will be trouble ahead.

I am the only BKN baker around here Ms F.......step away from the flour and eggs.......and keep walking.

And you Mr M - you so much as leave a smiley face on that there 'competition' line, or any other about someone else's honey buns then there will be no more honey buns for you!!

LOL

No Im serious!!!!!!!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:
FoxAccountancyServices wrote:
I have clients that throw everything in, even the security details letters for the their bank accounts!! LOL
Competition!!!!
Best thing that we've found in a clients box file.
I'll go with an expired cheque for £3500 stapled to the back of an invoice! And this was not a big company!

Oops - I think the competition line was about what can be found in a clients box file!!! I thought it was about cakes. Sorry Shaun - buns back on the menu.........still not Michelle's though (soz Michelle, but I will nobble your cakes if I have to....will be a different sort of Bake Off for sure!)

lol

Only thing Ive had in the box files was a receipt for 11 packs of condoms. Why 11?? Plus a half eaten sandwich.

I would bank the cheque - the cashiers probably wont even notice.

That takes me back - that was my first job as office junior - checking all the cheques at the local branch for irregularities. A few thousand cheques...all checked manually, had to be done before 11am in case they needed to be bounced....daily!!!!!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

And why a receipt for a half eaten sandwich? What sort of cheap shop was your client going to... lol.

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Michele, my little love.. will you pop your name into your signature so that it auto posts, when you reply etc? I will forget after my memories are wiped when I go sleep tonight :))

Leger · Master Book-keeper

I don't know, I go away for two days, and not only is there a page and a half of threads to read through, but you're eating cake without me!!!

Best thing I saw receipt wise, nothing as exciting as 11 packs of condoms I'm afraid. A receipt for £1100 "workwear" ie personal clothing from a gents outfitters! Needless to say I rejected it.

And also the client who wanted me to put down a 4 grand hot tub that was in his garden, although to be fair he knew my answer before I even replied. Now if he'd have let me use it, that would have been a different matter..........

Plusside Ltd · Member

Hey Michelle, I've updated my sig and put a picture trying to be well behaved on here (pics always make me feel self conscious) so no mean comments!!!!!!!!! biggrin

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Aw cheers, darling! And a lovely photo too!

You know, there's actually is one way around suits being allowable.. you buy a couple of suits, they fit everyone in the office, and anyone "could" wear it for meetings, and then return it to the office.. like a uniform.. expensive suits are capitalised as plant/equipment..

Hahahahahah, Shaun, I know you will kill me for this one.. I would never recommend it to a client, but I have seen this argument!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Lol, timeshare clothing. Interesting concept Michelle!

Brings in a whole new set of questions at interview doesn't it... So, what size are you... Sorry, we appreciate that on paper you are absolutely perfect for the position but we only have openings at the moment for people with a 46 inch chest.

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

HAHAH!!!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Leger wrote:
I don't know, I go away for two days, and not only is there a page and a half of threads to read through, but you're eating cake without me!!!
Best thing I saw receipt wise, nothing as exciting as 11 packs of condoms I'm afraid. A receipt for £1100 "workwear" ie personal clothing from a gents outfitters! Needless to say I rejected it.
And also the client who wanted me to put down a 4 grand hot tub that was in his garden, although to be fair he knew my answer before I even replied. Now if he'd have let me use it, that would have been a different matter..........

I get receipts for a couple of grand for personal clothing from stores in Germany, but its for a sportsman who is on the telly a lot.

Liking the one who tried it with the hot tub!