A client works on 2012 Sage. I am doing some work on the VAT control, and have just noticed that after a certain return, all further detailed reports don't show the payments input tax breakdown
The return summary is correct (cash accounting)
The detailed report shows the output based on SRs, the input due on PP's but that's it... I can work it out easily using the audit trail in VAT rec order.. but this is so bizarre, I've never seen it before. Has the client unticked something perhaps... or could a default have been changed?
Michelle
You may need to remind me - but I have one on cash accounting so will look at the reports (cannot recall seeing anything amiss with the last ones) - Ive just not got access at the mo as Ive just got home and have a pal calling round shortly.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I think they have just done something, inadvertently.. everything was fine up to Feb14 and then from May14 onwards, no cash payments VAT listed.. weird eh?
Yet - if I'm reading your first post correctly - there are cash payments, and the VAT return itself is correct, so does include them in the figures?
I can't say I've ever encountered that before and, offhand, I can't think of any option within Sage that would lead to that happening. (You can configure tax codes as to whether they are included in the return - but a code that is set that way is excluded from the return figures as well as the detailed reports; it's how T9 is set up by default, for example).
"I can work it out easily using the audit trail in VAT rec order.."
You can also get a breakdown of the transactions from the VAT return itself: Double click on the VAT return to get the basic return up, then click on any of the values to open up a VAT breakdown summary for that box. That window has an option to export to Excel* but (not having Excel I don't know how detailed that is - I suspect it's just that summary) you can then double click on any of the figures to call up a list of transactions, which can itself then be sent to Excel or printed.
Looking at it now, it doesn't show the transaction type just the transaction number, nominal account, date, details and amount (and it doesn't even total them) - but it does provide a way to get an accurate breakdown of the figures.
Having said that, it would probably be easier to export the figures from the audit trail as a CSV file, throw that into a spreadsheet and get it to analyse the transactions by type.
* In Sage's company mind, everyone has Excel (or Excel is the only spreadsheet), so an ODBC link to that is the only way to go, and there can be no benefit whatsoever to have a button on that (or any other) window saying, perhaps, "CSV"
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
Hi Michelle
Ive just had a look at my clients sage (its 2013, not 2012 as I had thought) and as with you and Vince Ive never seen this before. Ive had a good wander around and cannot see anything whereby they can have changed what reports, unless they have for some odd reason set up a bespoke report and that is what they are sending rather than the full detailed report. Do you have access to the Sage itself so you can do as Vince suggests? If not I would ask for a VAT summary report as then you can view the headings as to what has been keyed via PP and just payments/purchases on account. Good call on the VAT configured codes Vince as thats the only other option I can think of.
Failing that - perhaps try to get a back up from before it went awry and one now and have a look in various settings screens/reports options to see if there is anything glaring.
Odd!
Just a random (and probably daft) thought given - they havent been keyed via the adjustments screen have they? Adjustments dont show on the main detailed report - you have to just get these via the adjustments report.
Hope you find it Michelle (if anyone can, its you!) and then let us know how you get on.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hi Vince! Will try and answer as best I can... I am actually using 2013 not 2012!! DOH!
VinceH wrote:
Yet - if I'm reading your first post correctly - there are cash payments, and the VAT return itself is correct, so does include them in the figures?
Yes, there are CP, BP and VP... the summary return is correct, but the detailed doesn't include them.
I can't say I've ever encountered that before and, offhand, I can't think of any option within Sage that would lead to that happening. (You can configure tax codes as to whether they are included in the return - but a code that is set that way is excluded from the return figures as well as the detailed reports; it's how T9 is set up by default, for example).
Agreed. They are all T1 so its not the VAT code that can be creating the issue, as SR and PR are also T1, and are all there.
"I can work it out easily using the audit trail in VAT rec order.."
You can also get a breakdown of the transactions from the VAT return itself: Double click on the VAT return to get the basic return up, then click on any of the values to open up a VAT breakdown summary for that box. That window has an option to export to Excel* but (not having Excel I don't know how detailed that is - I suspect it's just that summary) you can then double click on any of the figures to call up a list of transactions, which can itself then be sent to Excel or printed.
Looking at it now, it doesn't show the transaction type just the transaction number, nominal account, date, details and amount (and it doesn't even total them) - but it does provide a way to get an accurate breakdown of the figures.
Having said that, it would probably be easier to export the figures from the audit trail as a CSV file, throw that into a spreadsheet and get it to analyse the transactions by type.
* In Sage's company mind, everyone has Excel (or Excel is the only spreadsheet), so an ODBC link to that is the only way to go, and there can be no benefit whatsoever to have a button on that (or any other) window saying, perhaps, "CSV"
I did try that, before opting to use the audit trail. When I click box 4, it comes up with the VAT breakdown screen, which shows figures in "purchases payments" and "payments". I click into payments, and it gives me a little box with a list, but when I try to export to excel, it says 2003, 2007 and 2010 are supported, and I am using the MS365 desktop excel. Audit trail was just easier than the little box, and it all fell in order with the return, so was no biggie.
Hi Jo
I do have the back up (which is 2013, sorry!), as I do the bookkeeping and we pass it back and forth. The company file was set up by someone else in 2011, which suggests its been updated to 2013 at some point. It cant have been me, because they were already on 2013 when I took over (she wouldn't be able to open my back up, if she had a lower version, as you know)
I took over it, to do the Feb14 return. She sent me the back up, I worked on it and sent it back. The Feb14 return is fine. She then sent me a back up to do May14 (which only usually has sales invoices added to it) and the May14 report is the first to omit the payments.
I can only assume something has gone wrong with passing the back ups. Its not adjustments, but that was a good suggestion! I have run both reports and compared them on report designer, and they both have the same entries, so nothing has been changed there. I'll see if I have an old back up, still. Its very bizarre, Ive never seen anything like it.
Hi Michelle
Just a quick one as I am BOMBED and one a roll!
You MAY have hit upon the issue - in terms of the back up, but its a long shot. Usually its only the 'data files' that are backed up unless you tick the other options. Now strictly speaking if you only include the data files this shouldnt fiddle with the VAT detailed and has never altered any of mine before. BUT - am wondering if there was a change on what was backed at some point. Might be worth running the previous backups since Feb and having a quick look in the Backup--> Advanced options tab.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I can't see that being the explanation: If it was down to the nature of the backup what files it includes or excludes, it would affect the entire detailed report, not certain transactions that should be on it.
This is a proper Toyah.
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
I think if a full back up was sent, it would play with bespoke reports rather than a standard one. But I will have a look when I restore an old back up, thanks Jo
Hi Michelle
Did you run the detailed report before you reconciled or are you trying to get it from the archive? Also do you have any suppliers or customers withe the Ampersand sign in their reference?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hi
I did a bit of digging and found something on issues with archived detailed VAT returns not showing at all and /or showing partial detail due to the ampersand being within either account/supplier reference - so not necessary skewing the data on the said customer files, but other data as well. Cant for the life of me find the flipping link now - I just keep coming across other ones about the ampersand. It wasnt fixable on past reports but suggested you lose the & and all would be ok next time. If you have any it might be worth changing them and doing a dummy run on a new report?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Oh bummer - was hoping that might help! No clue whatsoever then.
Do you not have sage cover in your Accountancy package thingy? Looks like they are the only ones who can assist unless you go via John At Leyburn Solutions - not seen him on here for a while though.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
How about this then... I am now into the current year, and the Nov14 detailed... is fine!!! LOLOLOL!! So basically something has happened with May and Aug14
Nov14 archive version - fine
Feb15 archive version - fine
May15 archive version - not fine!
Aug15 archive version - not fine!
Nov14 printed version at the time - fine
Feb15 printed version at the time - fine
May15 version printed at the time - fine
Aug15 version printed at the time - fine!
I did wonder once we got into the quarters I had done, how I not spotted the missing payments, as I review the return!
So, its the archive that's the issue.. the plot thickens!
