Following Shaun's calculations of the cost of using Receipt Bank versus inputting invoices oneself, and my comments about a cloud-using client who asked me for timings, not saying that they meant Sage, I thought I'd take some actual timings to make some comparisons.
Unfortunately, when I used the cloudy system the other day, I didn't have many invoices to input - just four, in fact, but I timed it anyway. All four invoices already had supplier accounts set up, and the total time was 4:41 - so 70.25 seconds per invoice.
I decided I wanted a like for like comparison, so I fired up Sage's practice data. Since there were already supplier accounts set up for all four invoices on the cloudy system, I set those up on Sage ahead of inputting the invoices and timing the task. The total time for inputting the actual invoices? 1:33 - or 23.25 seconds per invoice.
Since then I've also timed two inputting two additional/larger blocks of invoices into Sage:
13 invoices, supplier accounts all already set up: 4:53 (average: 22.5 seconds per invoice)
39 invoices, supplier accounts all already set up: 14:23 (average: 22.13 seconds per invoice)
Those figures are consistent with the original four - so, on the face of it, I can put three invoices into Sage in the same time it takes me to put one in the cloudy system. (Though I accept that I've only timed myself with the cloudy system once, and only for a very small batch of invoices; to be more 'scientific' I'd need to do more timings, preferably with a larger batch of invoices.)
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
Whilst in no way am I a proponent for the cloudy stuff, I am assuming that on Sage you are using batch invoicing? Can you batch invoice on the cloudy stuff? (I think you can with Sage One accounting). I'm guessing, and by no means am I certain, that the only difference would be on bringing up the required page and hitting the save button?
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Yes - on Sage, it's the batch invoice screen. (In my version, if you want to input supplier invoices, there is no other option - though why anyone would choose a slower approach is beyond me!)
The cloud software I had to use doesn't have such an option; it's the kludgey one screen per invoice approach or nothing - in fact, it's two screens per invoice for this particular software (the supplier selection, invoice number and date goes on the first screen, then the analysis/amounts go on the second).
Waiting while the pages load is therefore a significant factor - but that's a large part of the point*, and one of my dislikes of cloud.
* Any one-screen-per system is going to be slower than a batch input system. Especially if the one-screen-per requires switching between keyboard and mouse.
* Any system whereby you have to wait while data is sent/received from a third party location (through however many nodes between you and them, *any* of which could be under heavy load) is going to be slower than a system that can access the data locally.
(That second one, of course, is subject to the state of your own hardware - but as long as its a good system, well looked after, etc...)
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
But it's wonderful! It has such great features that force you to charge your clients more because you spend more time doing things than you would otherwise.
One of my particular favourites is the very simple 'bank reconciliation' feature whereby you can 'tick' each transaction as it appears on the bank statement - but doesn't provide an option to (for example) display only unreconciled transactions, so to establish the items still to be reconciled you just have to scroll through the transactions looking for ones that aren't ticked.
It's almost like the new fangled modern 'cloud' approach has reinvented manual cash books all over again!
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
I've always said this.. cloud software is good for clients wanting to do their own bookkeeping, but not for bookkeepers in practice.. we need industrial, over domestic! ;0)
I started on QuickBooks Online with a new client as they insisted they all wanted access to the accounts. The first month's worth too me 4 hours on QuickBooks online. Then they decided they didn't need access and would I please redo it all using QuickBooks Desktop as it would be cheaper for them ie no monthly QuickBooks fee. I did the work again and it took me 2 hours on the desktop. I didn't use batch invoicing for either method.
But it's wonderful! It has such great features that force you to charge your clients more because you spend more time doing things than you would otherwise.
One of my particular favourites is the very simple 'bank reconciliation' feature whereby you can 'tick' each transaction as it appears on the bank statement - but doesn't provide an option to (for example) display only unreconciled transactions, so to establish the items still to be reconciled you just have to scroll through the transactions looking for ones that aren't ticked.
It's almost like the new fangled modern 'cloud' approach has reinvented manual cash books all over again!
OMG - I have trialed sageone recently - it could be a money maker for bookkeeper on their larger scale customers. No I am not advocating using it as such and would steer anyone like that away from it. Great for one man bands who dont have many entries and really want to feel like they are doing their own bookkeeping, if they dont mind paying £120 a year for it and relying on the internet not being down when they are using it.
I find that the 'tick' for each transaction is a pain in that you have to get the tick in the little box as opposed to be able to just click anywhere on the entry - even that slows down keying. Plus if you do not use the 'optional' reference section but only key in the 'details' box then none of this detail pops up on your software's Bank so you just have a pile of dates and amounts and nothing to cross reference it to.
Its all very clunky.
Best one - they used to have a nominal report - all transactions. Flaw - it just listed ALL transactions and didnt provide subtotals for any categories. Now they have got rid of that and replaced it with nominal report which shows start balance, totals of all debits, totals of all credits and the end balance. If you want to see the detail you have to drill down on screen!!!!! Clearly working on the basis that all clients Accountants will have access as well so therefore it doesnt matter if you cant provide a report as it is all on screen. Not appreciating that most Accountants like reports to play with and well lets face it, not all of them will have access to the software.
To be fair to sage - they are taking on board any such comments and tweaking as they go. My fear is that there are not enough Accountants commenting, its mostly day to day users - you can see that as some of the descriptions have been amended so they arent in 'bookkeeping' speak! The other downside is that they do not provide the 'help' screen notes for anyone who has not upgraded to their new system.
I will be sticking to desktop.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
As will I in general - but if a client wants me to use the cloud, I will (pretty much as I've always done - or at least as long as 'cloud' has been a thing) point out the flaws, including that it takes longer and therefore costs them more. But if they insist it's what they want, and they're willing to pay the price, I'll do it.
And I now have some timings to back that up.
I might improve on those timings, though - at some point, I might endeavour to create a block of fictional work (say, an hour's worth in Sage) consisting of the main day to day things (sales and purchase invoices, payments and receipts, bank rec) and will use free trials of a range of packages to time that work.
I've long said I want to create a test set up for desktop software, to include some of the less mundane features I use in Sage, to see how well other stuff compares - and so far I've not got around to it. So perhaps I should think about both, rolling them into one test.
Hmmm.
-- Edited by VinceH on Thursday 19th of November 2015 07:22:09 PM
-- Edited by VinceH on Thursday 19th of November 2015 07:23:16 PM
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
Sage have cottoned on, that to make money out of the desktop version, client manager now has to be on monthly subscription, rather than outright buy. I don't fancy being held to ransom like that, so going to have to stick with 2015 as long as possible!! :(
Not sure if they have gone this way for anything higher then instant, when on single licence
I think it's across the entire range, though I believe it's still possible to buy (some of it?) on a perpetual licence (possibly only through third parties like Amazon, where I think I've seen it listed).
Indeed, looking at Sage's site now, I can see Sage Instant Accounts is priced at "From £10 per month + VAT" (which is without Sage Cover - make it £20+VAT/month for that!)
How the hell can they justify charging people an ongoing fee and NOT provide some level of support? FFS!
Anyway... back to the plot. Looking for it on Amazon, I see it for £79.99 for Sage Instant Accounts 2015, or £129.99 for the Plus version.
I have to dash out now, so I haven't got time to check further on Sage's site to see if it can still be bought "properly".
__________________
Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
From June last year Sage started insisting that you didnt have an option to buy perpectual licences from them as I understand it yes across their entire range, but they were clearly available in other market places and still available then to anyone in the Accountants club. I am surprised that they tried so hard to push their existing Accountants on to it and would be interested to know if they have moved the majority or not or most are like you Michelle in not wanting to. Problem is - will enough Accountants push back on this. Last year they were trying to convince me that I would easily make my monthly subs back on the back of any commissions I would earn by me pushing my clients to move!!!!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
