Hi,

I would advise IAB for self employment. I won't go into my opinions of the ICB due to the possibility of being barred from the forum.

I started with the ICB, I then completed AAT, I then acquired membership and a practice licence from the IAB, using my AAT as exemptions.

The question of will you have enough knowledge only you will know, if you study the course, plus read elsewhere, and keep things basic, such as dealing with sole traders, then I personally would say yes.

I'm biased though, clearly.

Most will say you need experience. You have some experience, so assuming you were able to complete the accounts correctly therein is your answer.

It goes without saying that it is an advantage to have experience.

I have myself discovered outside of textbooks -

clients are not so clean and clinical.

Nothing is as simple as it looks.

You'll need working papers to show all your calculations in an excel file to show how you have arrived at your figures.

Information relating to

Bank rec's / debtors / creditors/ vat rec's etc.

There is more. The books show you how to do it in a clinical, minimal way - the books seldom, in fact I've never read one, where you are given examples to working papers, how to format them, why you need to keep them.

The logistics if you like, of running a practice are not covered in books.

Having said all the above, with bank rec's etc - seemingly with the cloud software, all you'll need is an ipad.

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Wednesday 24th of February 2016 04:07:39 PM

Hi Liz,

take a look at ACCA-X for starters and then think about whether you want to progress to AAT / CAT / IAB / IFA / AIA / etc.

The first few modules of ACCA-X are free and there is plenty of additional free materials on OpenTuition so that will really work as a good start for youi to decide whether this career path is the right one for you before you invest too much of your own money.

AAT is a really good, well respected qualification. Remember that as a bookkeeper whether self employed or not you will be working with Accountants so it helps if you have a qualification that they rate and you will find that many chartered started out on the AAT path so your bit of paper means something to them.

HTH and welcome to the forum,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

abacus12345 wrote:

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1.  All ready for a practice licence - yippee. Start looking for an employed job....What? Where is asking of ICB in job descriptions???

2.  VAT for starters???? What's all that about.

3.  Self assessment?? Now I completed and passed SA with the ICB, there is no chance of passing AAT tax with that knowledge!!

4.  If you are a student of the ICB - I'd add these to your reading to make up for what most likely isn't in your syllabus.

Melville's tax
Business accounts - David Cox
BPP - C03 CIMA fundamentals of business maths

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Wednesday 24th of February 2016 06:13:38 PM

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 Hi Johnny

First of all, I only have limited knowledge of the ICB, so if my comments are misplaced, please say

1.  What made you think ICB was an entry into employment?  As far as I am aware that isn't something it does at all, it's solely a vehicle to become a self employed bookkeeper

2.  Does it not do any training on VAT?  That does surprise me, as a s/e bookkeeper would need to know about VAT.

3.  Although it does now extend training beyond trial balance for those that want to do self assessments, I don't think it was it's original aim.  I thought that was what AAT was for, if you wanted to get on the bottom rung of accountancy.

4.  Why would the top and bottom books need to be read by someone studying ICB?  Middle book may be of some value, I don't know the book in question to comment. 

Hi John,

top book (Melvilles Taxation) should be read by everyone in this profession. Its a tad expensive compared to some of the professional bodies texts for a book that you have to buy new every year but for a fundamental knowledge of tax sufficient not to be phased by clients random strange request accept no substitute.

As for should it be read by someone studying ICB, as you noted yourself, ICB is no good for employment, only self employment. As a self employed bookkeeper even if you do not file tax returns a core understanding a tax is a key skill so that you kn ow when something is wrong even if you do not take care of resolving the matter.

Worry not, it's not like a Tolley's tax guide, much more user freindly with around 500 examples to work through as you go.

The last book is published under several different names with versions associated with all major bodies. Its just key business maths which is more of a prepare to study accountancy type book.... After saying that there are so many different versions of it I just had a look in my library and I don't have any of them.

On the employment line I think that you will find that in the past all sorts of rash comments have been made in order to secure market share. It doesn't take much to find some of the classic debates on here espechially in relation to such rash claims compared to Reed job ads and also the fabled statistics.

To bring balance to the force though I will say that everything being spoken about here is past tense and from comments in this thread I do not believe that we are talking about the current syllabus.

People should do their own investigations on all potential bodies..... before making their decision the become a student of the AAT!

abacus12345 wrote:

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Ok,

Point 1) One assumes that a qualification would open doors to potential employment. Most qualifications can open doors to employment, most qualifications do not immediately open the door to self employment.
2) The VAT element was more how to log the double entry - invoices. No reference to the VAT act, no substance at all.
3) Don't understand the question
4) If someone is studying the SA exam with the ICB, with the view to become self employed, Melville is essential. I think the need for business maths speaks for itself?

---

 Hi Johnny

I remember some years ago enrolling for the IAB course through HLC, when I first started doing my employers accounts. I thought it would be a good thing to get some training under my belt  (My boss gave me a copy of Sage and basically said, get on with it lol) It was only when speaking to the external accountant a couple of days later and he said, never heard of AIB.  At that time I thought the training company were pulling a fast one (scores of complaints on the internet about HLC themselves) so cancelled within the cooling of period.  Obviously I've heard of IAB now, but the accountant hadn't, and that put me off.

Question 3  Just noticed you did the SA with ICB,  sorry, ignore my answer.  Interesting that it doesn't seem to give you what AAT does, I had assumed it was a similar qualification.

My comments about the books was from a purely bookkeeping prospective, not based on venturing into SA territory.  But you make a fair point.  Book 3 was the CIMA title, which is on a much higher level than ICB.  (Shaun's comments noted)

 

Hi Shaun.

Just clicked on Melville's Tax Book, expecting it to be outside my budget.  £36 not over expensive if it helps as you describe.  Obviously we're coming to the end of the financial year, am I best waiting for the next one or will FA2015 still benefit me?

 

Hi John,

FA15 is good for next January and a lot of the concepts won't change between this and the next version... However... If you are anything like me if I have read a book I find it difficult to read another version of it immediately so I alternate between the Meville book and the Kaplan Text for ACCA paper P6 (Advanced Taxation).

Its my learning style that I cannot learn by just reading I have to do excercises trying things out for myself for it to really sink in so I find texts like Tolleys aand BPP quite difficult reads. Where Kaplan and Melville suit me.

I've tried a couple of other books professing to be just like Melville but they are really not.

Sorry, getting off subject a bit. What I was getting to was that for your first read I would try to get a version fresh off the presses in August so that you have a full years worth of dip in and out study as well as being able to use the book as a reference (Melville is pretty well indexed).

Then get Kaplan ACCA F6 (Taxation) for the year following, Then Melville, Then Kaplan ACCA P6 (Advanced Taxation), then back to Melville and repeat the cycle ad infinitum.

Your tax skills won't be anywhere near CTA level with that but they will be more than you will ever need to use and that strength of knowledge will add to your confidence when dealing with not just clients but also accountants.

Maybe later this year we should start a BKN book club where loads of people buy the same book at the same time in order to work through it together? Just a thought but it could motivate people to seriously improve area's of their knowledge base. What do you think? It would have to be on the back burner for now as way too busy at the min but just one of those ideas for the site that might have a bit of mileage.

Can I just add in regards to melville - the FA 15 edition was one of the first publications and due to the election upcoming at the time, there have been some additional updates on the publishers website to update the book to reflect this.

I thought all the ladies that read Mills & Boone had switched to 50 shades of grey!

which I've never read but have read 50 shades of gravy, now that was saucy 

 

Count me in on the book club thingy

lol, who was that guy who used to post a Friday fun thread, Dave I think it was. He disappeared not long after I joined here, I think he had some health issues with his knees.  Some of them were quite good.

I've posted the above ^ ^ ^ on the wrong thread. Fgs grrrr

abacus12345 wrote:

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I started with the ICB, I then completed AAT, I then acquired membership and a practice licence from the IAB, using my AAT as exemptions.

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Wednesday 24th of February 2016 04:07:39 PM

---

 Hi

 

Would you mind me asking what services you are allowed to offer under your AAT exemptions on your IAB practice licence? Are you restricted to just bookkeeping or are you able to offer tax returns / limited company accounts? I am looking at doing AAT to extend on my ICB qualifications (I think I have the same as you ICB plus SA and Payroll). 

Thanks

Lyndsey

the only LTD I will have is my Brother in laws accounts (sole director) which I will currently pass onto Accountant to do final accounts/returns, but I do have a partnership which I think will go limited at some point. I wanted to expand from ICB, their level 4 Diploma (when it is finally released) should allow you to offer LTD returns and filing. So I have been looking at AAT (if I can get it under the 24+ loan I will have to upfront costs, until I am working pretty much full time. I currently work part-time self employed around small children!

To become MAAT do you need to work in a practice, or can self employed work count?

 

Thanks

-- Edited by Lyndsey on Saturday 27th of February 2016 02:20:24 PM

They have been releasing level 4 for as long as Axle Rose has been releasing the next guns and Roses album.