Keeping track - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

abacus12345 · Guru

Keeping track

Haymac · Veteran Member

Hi Johnny,

Has to be a wall planner for me, boring and not very technical I'm afraid!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Excel spreadsheet... And a wall planner... And a diary... What can I say, I'm a belt n braces kind of guy!

I used to use the diary within outlook and then in Windows live mail as you could set those up to flash up warnings when you needed to do stuff but recently thats fallen by the wayside.

Also the diary tends to be more for what I've done and a worklist of what I need to do today. So really comes down to Excel and the wall planner.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

When I worked in Corporate we had these big, well A4 diary boxes. in them was a card with each day of the month, plus one for each of the months and behind each of the cards you put any bit and bobs you wanted reminders for such as taking fees for new loans, copy of letters you wanted a response to - could chase if you hadnt, allsorts. We all used them, long after we had moved a lot of it onto outlook reminders, which just got really annoying seeing them pop up all the time. I still use the same system now, but a much smaller box with cards or scruffy bits of paper in it. Sad that I am I do mostly remember people VAT deadlines but everything else is in that box, including a note to go to the dentist!!!!!

I did look very briefly at one of those freebie time management things the oterh day, but gave up after about three milliseconds when it wouldnt do what it said it would. Mostly cos the bit I needed was the pay option, but having no patience with something Im unfamiliar with was not helping!

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi Guys

The new types of management / practice software isn't cheap - even when you do stumble upon a 'cheaper' version, combined with every other piece of software, you see the combined price list bouncing off the ceiling.

It would be nice, I think! To get daily alerts - I guess I could do that from within windows anyway! Or even on mobile now.

Excel remains then!

Or a Del boy filofax - shall need a aluminium briefcase lol (Anyone use a briefcase now?)

Thanks

abacus12345 · Guru

On the subject of tracking, how are you keeping checks on clients turnover in regards to those nearing the VAT threshold? Monthly P&L? P&L 12 months consecutively? I can see how it is easy to perform checks if you've a handful of clients, but say if you've above 50 I imagine things can start to get out of hand if you aren't careful

MarkS · Expert

We use Inform Direct to keep track of Co House filing deadlines and annual return deadlines as well as for doing all Co Sec work.

To keep a track of everything else we use PM in IRIS.

We use it to set up stages for jobs for

1. Accounts.

2. Personal Tax Returns

3. Corporation Tax Returns.

4. Annual Returns

5. Weekly Payroll

6. Monthly Payroll

6. VAT returns

7. CIS returns

8. Monthly Management Accounts

9. Quarterly Management Accounts

10. New client checklist - This ensures everything is done for every new client.

We will set up other jobs to keep a track of

1. Contacting A list clients every 3 months.

2. Contacting B grade clients every 6 months.

3. Contact clients 3 months before their year end to see if they want a pre year end tax review

We dont keep a track of turnover of clients nearing the VAT threshold. That is the client's responsibility. If we become aware they are nearing the threshold we will ask them to keep reviewing it on a monthly basis.

Jay · Senior Member

Good morning,

We try not to create a problem that is not there.

All appointments, deadlines, any other issues are entered into the only office paper diary (A4 page to a day.)

That being said, we have now have just two partners in our practice.

The details are also entered into a "shared" google calendar and colour coded, again keeping it simple. This is synced to our mobiles.

Timed reminders are set to pop up on the computers, and 30 mins before meetings we get also alerts on the mobiles.

We used to use Outlook which we far prefer but can no longer sync them with our Android mobiles.

Regarding clients nearing the VAT threshold, this may well have been picked up at the last accounts.

We would at that time explain to the client how to check the rolling turnover for VAT purposes.

So, keep it simple, it can work.

Jay

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi So what I can assume is - excel and a diary is more than sufficient. I do like the bells and whistles type software too, taxcalc offers a nice client hub. I've got to admit, I've always been nervous when it comes to keeping an eye on VAT level. I get that ultimately it is the clients responsibility, yet with us being custodians of the accounts...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Johnny,

but of course that depends upon whether we are custodians of the accounts all year or whether we just get to see the stuff once a year?

I wold imagine that the bulk of Marks clients who are not currently VAT registered are annual clients so how does one keep track for the rest of the time?

It has to be their responsibility to recognise the need to register although we would expect a call when they are getting close in order to help them through the transition.

abacus12345 · Guru

Of course yes, however I was making reference to those who have their bookkeeping completed on a regular basis. You have raised an interesting point to me in regards to yearly accounts - it would be easy to pass the threshold and accrue some rather nasty fines if the client isn't on the ball - especially when they believe their accountant / bookkeeper does / should take care of it all.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

tell me about it Johnny.

some of them seem to believe that having a professional on board absolves them of all responsibility!

some business owners I would not trust not to hurt themselves left alone with a packet of crayons.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

The empty packet sometimes. Although if you confiscate it you can use it for keeping notes....beats the back of a fag packet!

If I notice turnover is heading that way, I tend to start mentioning it quite early. Last one I told them three times, the last time with the comment 'Im not going to remind you again, its your responsibility', yet another month went by before the last minute that panic then ensued to avoid any potential nasty fines

abacus12345 · Guru

On the subject of tracking -

If you're taking care of payroll for your clients, or if you know the answer ;)

In relation to, I'm guessing 'larger' clients -

If Mr / Mrs Big employs let's say five sales reps, how are you tracking who uses what, who owes what, and what NI is due for each, and for all? In a P11d & employers respect?

Tried and trusted excel and word?

I'm guessing each employee doesn't have their own nominal code in the COA, so would you create something akin to a fixed asset schedule? (Probably a poor attempt at a guess!)

Thanks

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Thursday 14th of April 2016 10:39:26 PM

Leger · Master Book-keeper

When I worked at the chamber I had to do this once. I went through all the expenses for each employee at tax year end, and made a note on a spreadsheet of those which needed a P11D and/or employers class 1A

From memory I think there were about 20 to submit. That was back in 2008 though so I imagine they will have made it digital now smile

abacus12345 · Guru

I'm just thinking if you've a set up as I mentioned, you don't have employee named accounts in your books, how do you keep track?

Take for instance,

Where are you storing - (I was going to say a mobile, but trivial things no longer need reporting on a p11d do they?).. laptop for personal use

When I say trivial I mean one mobile, used for business ;)

Excel, or can I stick it into payroll software to flag up at the time a p11d needs filing?

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Thursday 14th of April 2016 10:47:19 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Johnny - just add the detail to your payroll software, you usually have standard BIK options, but can also add or change the names and even add notes. Or just keep on xl.

abacus12345 · Guru

Thanks Jo. You is a star :)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks for the thanks biggrin biggrin

abacus12345 · Guru

When running PAYE, class 1, 1a, secondary etc - it gets processed through 12pay or other - the bill to pay HMRC is sent to the clients online account - it is their duty to login to their own account to pay their dues, how often do you have to remind them to pay? Once, twice? Or do you make it known from the beginning, that they have a duty to take care of certain things like paying PAYE / VAT themselves? Thanking you :)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Will answer this later with a salutary tale. When I'm home and can do so from my PC, currently wining myself in the Manchester cafe culture scene and can hardly see the screen on my phone it's so sunny!!!

Just realised that my phone has used predictive text to say I was wining myself, which was typed as sunning myself, so Shaun, no wonder you thought I was on the booze. Mightve been better if I had been. Although why my phone was predicting I was on the booze I have no idea, honest g'vnor!!!! wink

-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 20th of April 2016 06:52:10 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Yes Joanne, of course its the sun and nothing at all to do with the amount of wine destroying your ability to focus!

Have fun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Are you casting nasturtiums? hic. No strictly caffeine. The booze was last night!!!!! The need for coffee was unrelated to last night though. Hic

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hang on a mo, I thought the equation sunny weather = wine was fully balanced.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
When running PAYE, class 1, 1a, secondary etc - it gets processed through 12pay or other - the bill to pay HMRC is sent to the clients online account - it is their duty to login to their own account to pay their dues, how often do you have to remind them to pay? Once, twice? Or do you make it known from the beginning, that they have a duty to take care of certain things like paying PAYE / VAT themselves? Thanking you :)

Anyway....as promised....

The RTI report goes to HMRC to show what they can expect to be paid. You then send the client a P32 from the software system to show what needs to be paid and by what date. The likes of 12Pay and Monseysoft will give you the HMRC bank details and the date it needs to be paid by on the actual P32. If I get the chance I might send you an example of one. Clients can pay monthly or quarterly (up to them to choose/agree with HMRC, although beware the quarterly option is only for those with payments under £1500pm) - see this https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll/paying-hmrc

I tell them when I process the payroll and only do so once - the rest is up to them. Be careful though - if you have weekly as well as monthly payroll then you have to make sure you get the P32 at the right time in the month (ie the calculation covers up to the 5th, so if say you have a monthly payroll on 31st, then your weekly payroll is on the eg 3rd, then you need to let them have the P32 after you have calculated the wages on 3rd as it will be included in that months P32, but if your weekly payroll is on 6th, you need to produce it after the monthly staff have been paid.

Care - with RTI you mgiht not have access to the 'online' HMRC view (see below)

With VAT - you might only prepare the VAT return for the client to submit to HMRC. Others you will prepare and submit. Either way I always send a copy and tell them when it needs to be paid by and send a link on how to pay. I dont remind them - their job! I do encourage all my clients to set up VAT to be paid by Direct Debit as then they can just forget about it (as long as there are funds to cover it) and they get an extra few days to pay it.

By the way - you cant set up an ongoing direct debit for PAYE - only one off payments, then set it up again the next month. Most pointless piece of garbage ever - I keep giving them rubbish feedback about it but they do nothing!

Right the salutory lesson.

Client of mine - recently taken on. Sage a NIGHTMARE mess!!!!! Accountants do wages. PAYE, NI and Net wages accounts did not balance by miles for this year, finally agreed the former to the penny (still working on the other!)

Client paid one months late, received chaser call from HMRC who when he asked how much told him tax refund was due £300+ so he could knock that off the payment.

Now the PAYE will no longer balance. Reports from Accountants show no tax refund due/received this year, so I tried HMRC. They said again it was a refund, when challenged decided it must be from earlier this year. When challenged to tell me when, said dont worry about it, its a refund!!!!! No try again!! Could be from years ago, but they cant say when. I was told to look online but explained said client has never set up PAYE online. Accountant doesnt have it (lots dont!) as they just use third party software to submit. So I asked HMRC to provide a full breakdown of what was paid v expected, to be told they can only go back to 2013/14 as that was when RTI was implemented (rubbish of course cos we still reported such things pre RTI and WE have to keep things 7 years so why shouldnt they!!). It might not even be my clients - might have been dumped to the wrong reference.

Anyway - if it is my cleints, HMRC have been sitting on a refund for HOW long without notifying him??????? How much more are they sitting on that isnt due to them? HMRC fit for purpose?!

Moral of the story - set up an online account and keep checking it!

Sorry for any typo!!!!!! Sober, honestly!

abacus12345 · Guru

Thank you very much for the detailed response. It is always a pain to try to discover the administration side of how things are supposed to come together. You've explained it perfectly. Hope you enjoyed your drink :)

Meadowlands · Senior Member

Thanks for the post Joanne its a really interesting read - very helpful