Not on my computers, because I'm in control of all updates... but I am aware of a few others who have been downgraded from Windows 7 or 8 to Windows 10 without actually wanting to be. (I did predict that Microsoft would become more aggressive as the 29th July deadline approached - it looks like I was right).

My initial thoughts were that when the nag window popped up, it gained the input focus - so as the users were typing, the keypresses were directed to it, and one of them triggered the default button to proceed with the install. I've since learned that Microsoft have decided to ignore their own user interface guidelines. If they are adhered to by programmers both within and without the company, such guidelines ensure you have a consistent interface; if present, the minimise button shrinks the window to just its representation on the task bar, for example, and the maximise button will either fill the screen with the window or make it its maximum size if it isn't already, or if it isn't will reduce its size.

The third button in that group is the close icon - the 'x' icon (which is also red these days). According to Microsoft's guidelines (and all common sense), the effect of clicking that icon should be to close the window without taking any action. It should do the same as a 'Cancel' or a 'No' button, if there is one.

But not with the latest versions of Microsoft's GWX - the nagware that gives you the "option" to update to Windows 10. It turns out, the close icon on recent versions of that act the same as the default action: To update you now.

Microsoft played a nasty trick which basically forces W10 on anyone who has automatic updates.

They claim to have now backed away from that in the face of public outcry but such of course depends upon your system having been updated this week since they realised that they had overstepped the mark.

Here's the article from BBC news that basically shows how hitting the big red X in the top right of the box basically accepts instalation!!!!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36376962

There's a warning in there about attempting to revert to W7 from an abandoned instalation.

There was a report on Aweb about VT+ with W10 but since they have "upgraded" (yer, right!) the old groups have disappeared and if some of the old threads are still there I'm damned if either via the Aweb search or Google I can find them.

The people in charge of that site have taken a great resource and absolutely trashed it but thats not something to clutter this thread up with.

If you have to go ahead with the move to W10 according to the VT site it should be ok. There is apparently more of an issue around Excel 2016 than problems with the operating system.

Good luck Georgie.

Shaun.

This Knowledge Base article is much clearer than that BBC article that barely touches on the 'u-turn' in question and spends more time commenting on how Microsoft's tactics have been received:

support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3095675

Essentially, if you get the pop up telling you that your downgrade to Windows 10 is ready and will be installed "whenever", rather than click the 'X' tool, click where it says to do so to "reschedule or cancel" the downgrade. From there you can either:

* Cancel the downgrade - aka saying "no" yet again because Microsoft didn't hear you the first time... or the second time... or the third time... etc.)

* Or, if you're happy to let Microsoft transfer full ownership of your computer to themselves, you can select a different time for the downgrade, so that it happens when it's more convenient.

As for the option to roll back within a month... is it even still there?

I haven't had a proper look at any of the computers I mentioned above. In particular, in one case the guy was telling me that he'd tried out Windows 10 quite a while back and didn't like it, so reverted his computer to Windows 7. (Which to my mind is a very firm "no"). However, now that it's been downgraded to Windows 10 again, he looked for the option to roll it back again, and can't find it. It might still be there and he just can't remember where, or it may have been moved or worded differently - these are all possibilities, but I can't help but wonder if Microsoft have taken the option away.

(There's also the possibility of piss poor programming - with the month in which he could roll back commencing the first time he tried it, and not being reset when he did so; i.e. much more than a month has passed, so this time the option is gone.)

"I quite like W10 - if opening multiple files I no longer need to hold down Ctrl I can just click the individual check boxes."

The option to display the check boxes and use them is there in Windows 8. In fact, I use it - because not using the keyboard modifier and only the mouse to make a selection of disparate files brings Windows closer to RISC OS (on which you benefit from a third mouse button, with a clearly defined primary function).

Windows 8 - or more specifically Windows 8.1 - is an operating system that is bloody awful, but without itself changing somehow becomes a whole lot better just by considering Windows 10 as an alternative. :)

Peasie wrote:

---

I had a box come up saying they were going to update at a set time on a set day. I just gave up and admitted defeat and re-scheduled it to a better time.

One thing that does annoy me. A box that appears to be on top and that I don't intend using I will close using "Alt F4" then I find out the program I want kept open has closed. It's usually Chrome. I have 4 tabs open that have been open for months. I deliberately close down Chrome using the Task Manager so that when I open it again it asks me if I want to restore the pages that were there before. I know there must be an easier way - but I'd probably never go back to the page. So if I close it using Alt F4 it has closed normally and I need to go in to History and restore the 4 tabs.

I quite like W10 - if opening multiple files I no longer need to hold down Ctrl I can just click the individual check boxes.

---

 Peasie, in Chrome click on the 3 bars in the top right-hand corner of the toolbar and click on "settings".  Under the heading "On start-up" select the option "continue where you left off".  When you close Chrome it should save your open tabs and re-open them without having to restore the pages.  Hth.

Hi Christina,

[Clicking to 'reschedule' the downgrade to Windows 10 also provided an option to cancel it, but...]

"This option doesn't appear for me now, it's either downgrade now or schedule another time.  I clicked the "x" thinking that if I schedule a time the computer is off it *might* then downgrade as soon as I switch it on again?"

Yes, since I suggested cancelling by selecting the reschedule option, it has been reported that the goalposts have been moved again - the option to cancel has been removed.

The options now are to update immediately, or reschedule it - and apparently the option to reschedule only offers a limited range (some time in the next five days - some people wondered if you could set it to some arbitrary point in the future).

Microsoft are doing exactly what I said they'd do in the run up to the 29th July deadline: They're becoming more aggressive in their determination to get people onto Windows 10. (And I expect that to increase in the next couple of months).

My other prediction was that they'd extend the deadline to try to catch hold-outs like me - but if they don't, only 56 more days before the silliness ends. (Alternatively, they'll say the offer is over, some people will remove whatever defences they have in place - and within a couple of months they'll be downgraded anyway.)

Johnny: you might want to watch this: www.youtube.com/watch

At least for accounting it's not a matter of life or death. Unless HMRC have tougher penalties planned for the future!
www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/

Can you not run QB in compatibility mode? Right click - properties- compatibility pick Windows 7 or vista...

Hi,

Windows 10 downloaded on my laptop over the weekend when I switched on and then left it unattended. Came back and there it was.

Struggled to find my way around and couldn't use clients software because of it.

Brought my laptop to work to have windows 10 uninstalled and windows 7 reinstated. Now I have no internet access and it is proving difficult to fix.

I can see my wifi but it is saying no internet access.

Getting behind with work and clients chasing me for updates!

I am screwed!

Elaine

usually can do it from control panel. or clicking on the internet icon thingy in the taskbar if you have it there. Or is it possible to do an upgrade of clients software for free - didnt you say they use some cloudy stuff in another post?

Ok, you're suffering so I'm not going to make anything of the serious issue's associated with using clown systems, rather lets assume that your IT guy is looking in the wrong place and lets look at a few things to consider

How are you writing posts on this site? Why are you not able to access your clients systems through that?

Are you accessing the site through the same router that you use for your work PC?

Are you on a wired or wireless connection to your router?

Do you have a backup pc / old PC / laptop of the IT guy. If so, was that able to connect through your router?

Bimey! I haven't had any problems as of yet,

Georgie

No wifi is not the same as no internet at all. You'd be surprised how many people fail to notice the wifi on switch. :)

Ooh... haven't had a chance to read properly for a few days.

Quickly reads thread to catch up...

Hmm... yes, there are accounts of people being downgraded to Windows 10, rolling it back to upgrade to what they had before, and finding things not quite as they should be.

As Johnny says - if the WiFi isn't working, that doesn't mean the physical ethernet connection isn't. However, whether ethernet is a practical solution depends on Elaine's set up, where the router is, etc. She might not want to sit in the cupboard under the stairs in order to get online, for example.

The flip side is that it's also entirely possible that something's gone wrong with the internet connection itself, at the router or beyond, and it's just coincidentally happened at the same time as the Windows 10 shenanigans.

The quick test is to see if other devices on your network can still connect to the intertubes - for example, make sure mobile data is turned off on your phone and that it's connected to the WiFi; load a web page. If it works, the problem is probably to do with your computer.

Now, try connecting the computer to a different WiFi network if you can. (Eg a friendly neighbour). Alternatively, if you know how, you can set the phone up as a hot spot (disconnect it from your WiFi, and turn mobile data back on first!) and use that as a test WiFi network.

If you can get online using a different network, it suggests the problem is specific to the connection between your computer and your router (because we've already established using another device that the internet connection is working). But if you can't, it does indicate a hardware or driver problem in the computer.

So, assuming it's the computer...

One suggestion has been to 'forget' the network. That's worth a try. IIRC with Windows 7, this is done from a screen titled something like "Manage Wi Fi Connections" - which is probably in the Network section of Control Panel (or possibly a menu option if you right click on the WiFi network icon in your system tray), but I can't remember the specific path. Either way, once you're there you should be see a list of all WiFI networks you've ever connected to - so select yours and (probably a right click) tell it to forget it. You can then connect to it again as though it's a new connection.

Switching the WiFi off and on could also be worth a try. Older laptops sometimes had a physical button on one of the edges - alternatively, it might be the (usually blue) 'Fn' button, and another key with a similarly coloured icon that indicates WiFi.

The next thing which might just kick it into life is to disable and re-enable the hardware - though you might feel you need to be a little braver to do this. (It shouldn't break anything, but some people are just naturally wary - not unreasonable).

Again, I'm not using Win7 - but this time I think Win 8 is the same, so I'll use that to describe it. Go into Control Panel, then Network Centre. On the left, you should see "Change adapter settings" - click that. A new window will open showing all of your network adapters - right click on the WiFi adapter, and click "Disable" Once it says it's disabled, right click it again, and click "Enable".

You might want to leave this last one to your IT guy - who will know to do this anyway, but...

If that didn't work, get yourself to the same place again, and this time right click on the WiFi and and click "Status".  In the WiFi status window that appears, click "Properties" (bottom left, not "Wireless properties"). In the (arguably confusingly named) "WiFi Properties" window that appears, the WiFi adapter should be shown at the top, with a "Configure" button - click that. There will be a new window named for the adapter, with a number of tabs. Go to the one marked "Driver".

On this screen, you'll see a number of buttons to do with the Driver. Depending on how the manufacturer of the computer set things up, uninstalling the driver from here and installing it again might work: Uninstalling might get rid of the broken one that Windows 10 has put in place, and reinstalling *might* reload the correct one from the hidden/reinstallation partition on your computer. Similarly, rolling back might achieve the same thing. And/or the IT guy might be able to search for the correct driver online.

 

You say Wifi is ok so you are indicating that your connection is not hard wired.

Use a patch cable to plug your laptop into your router as the issue "may" be security (thinking that you should not be able to access the interent through the router) rather than an issue with your W7. If you hard wire then it bypasses the password security to log into throught the network to the internet. (sure that Vince would be able to put that in more techie terms).

If you don't have a patch cable they are sold in most places even some supermarkets (although you pay far more for them). You may find that they are called a network cable rather than Patch. On the actual wire itself you will be looking for a category of cable. You only need a CAT 5e cable although CAT 6 and CAT 7 will both do the job better (so look for CAT 5e, 6 or 7 on the cable).

With my setups I always switch wifi off inside the router to access the internet as the connection is both faster and you reduce external interference security issues.

Hope that helps,

Shaun.

p.s. having a patch cable is never a bad investment even if that doesn't prove to be the actual issue.

I agree - it's always sensible to have a cable or ten handy. Whenever I get one, with a new device or whatever, I never throw them away - they get added to my 'collection'. The number does sometimes decrease, though - when I end up giving spares to people to solve problems (because when they did get a cable - with a new device or whatever - they *did* throw it away!)

Ahem. Not just ethernet cables, either. Power bricks, wall warts, RGB cables... etc, etc, etc. :)

Some people do have their modems/routers in awkward places, though. But a handy tip for emergency: If the router is somewhere difficult, such as the cupboard under the stairs, get yourself a *long* cable, plug one end into your router, coil the cable up and leave it in the cupboard with the router. Come the time when you need to test, just grab the cable and uncoil it, to temporarily lead it somewhere convenient - it's already plugged into the router, and while it might cross doorways and floors, etc, it's just a temporary measure. When you're done, coil it back up and dump it in the cupboard again.

And yes, a wired connection is more secure than a wireless one - and the driver for the physical socket should be simpler, at least partly for the same reason (so Windows 10 is probably less likely to break that!)

OTOH, look how many devices we have all crying out for (either internet or just network) connectivity, compared with the number of sockets on the back of your router. (Mind you, WiFi is only the answer to that if the router is good enough to cope with the number of things you want to connect - cheap ones struggle.)

As an aside to the aside, and going back to Elaine's problem - just spotted this comment in reply to an article in El Reg (about Windows 10 new features):

forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2016/06/09/windows_10_insider_preview_build_14361/

"Will it let me turn my WiFi card on again?"

and (in response to being downvoted by someone):

"Not sure what the downvote is for... I actually really like Windows 10, it would just be nice if I didn't HAVE to have a network cable plugged into my laptop to be able to use it."

So the Windows 10 installation breaking the WiFi isn't unique to you (though those comments suggest to me that the poster has stuck with 10 and not rolled back to whatever they had previously).

So long as Microsoft don't get even more devious in the next seven weeks* - such as changing the signature of the installer malware so that things like Never10 don't spot it until it's too late.

* 29th July - seven weeks to the day, if MS stick to that date and stop trying to force 10 on everyone.

Elaine R wrote:

 Have to have windows 7 removed completely and reinstalled.

---

 Can I ask how you had it reinstalled? 

Wibble wibble Johnny. No idea what language you are talking. lol

I wondered if Elaine did all that herself or if her IT bod from work sorted it?

abacus12345 wrote:

---

Lol - apologises ;)

---

Was laughing at the 'COA' thinking you have been messing about on Sage for too long!!!!   Or referring to a Coat of Arms - and your new profile pic.  TBH - I think you should remove that as it did us no flaming good did it!!! Comes to something when you start celebrating the fact that a ManU player scored for Germany!!  

Lol, nothing quite like going straight to the nuclear option Johnny.

My reading of the question was more down to the mechanics of where the reinstall came from as quite often nowadays new PC's do not come with the necessary reinstalation disks and even if you create the reinstall discs there is still generally a load of other factory installed software plus all of the drivers that one has installed since that have been updated numerous times.

Truth is that doing a complete fresh install can be a complete pain in the proverbial which is to be avoided if at all possible (not least as you may find yourself having major issues with other software licences on your PC where software assumes that it has already been installed on another machine). You are best leaving fresh installs to experts (I find that many people working as PC repair guys are not experts).

You can however create a boot disk, reboot the machine from the boot disk then reinstall Windows from Disc where you can choose to do a fresh install that won't trash everything else. Generally that would be the first option that you would go for.

When you boot your machine you should not randomly press the PF keys. Generally to enter BIOS which seems to be what you were referring to you would hold down F2 on startup (be holding the key when you press the power button and release it as soon as you are given the option to enter the machines BIOS).

Many (but not all) W8 machines have a different settup using something called a UEFU (Unified Extensible Firmware Update)... I know nothing about that except for its existence as a replacement for BIOS.

If you have a system that can reinstall windows without external media on startup then you have either not properly formatted the HDD (you may have formatted only a partition of a segmented drive) or the machine has something like a seperate solid state backup.

HTH,

Shaun.