Hi Lesley Anne

Can I ask why the urgency?

This is actually a website for bookkeepers and Accountants so we would normally be asking you for a proper intro.

But as you are a business owner I would say - your Accountant is right and if they have advised you to do the split then they should also be advising you how to actually process it, or even going into sage given its the cloudy stuff they have access to, and amending it for you.

He/she should also be confirming if you were able to claim the VAT back on the expenses you have mentioned in the first place - we certainly dont have the detail behind that to know what would need reversing out of the VAT account - this is dependent on the nature of the subsistence and the motor expenses and thus to then be able to complete the journals correctly.   As its about cost allocation as opposed to correcting the Bank ( I assume) then you do not need to do anything to the Bank.

Also - if you have not yet reached your year end, or indeed the cut off point as to where your Accountant has taken the reports to complete the year end, then you may in fact not need to do journals, but just adjustments via the normal processing screens. Unless its VAT and Bank reconciled of course.

I would go back to your Accountant.

 

Edited - sorry just noticed it was VAT/Bank reconciled - shouldve read the question properly.

 

 

-- Edited by Cheshire on Saturday 18th of June 2016 05:39:39 PM

Hi Joanne,

The urgency is that I have limited time and wanted to finish fixing all my mistakes so I can send material for the accounts to be completed.

I've managed to fix all those where I didn't include VAT in the total expense.

It's just those where I did have the VAT box ticked so 20% was claimed and I want to 'unclaim' it i.e., I want to make an adjustment in my next VAT return.

I'm trying to reallocate but also take into account that there was VAT involved.

Hi Lesley,

I do not use Sage products so this is a non specific answer. For that you need to follow Joannes advice about calling SageOne support.

My explanation here is about the principle of your issue.

Two elements about it remain true, the amount that came out of the bank and the amount that was due in VAT.

Now, you say that this was all sorted months back so the VAT that you allocated has already been accounted for.

What you have left is an expenses balance of

Dr 280.66

Now, without knowing the way to do this in SageOne (software that I would never entertain) what you are attempting to do is unwind the expenses so far allocated and reallocate them to the correct buckets.

The journal that you would need would be

CR Expenses £280.66
Dr Motor Expenses £180.66
Dr Subsistence £100.00

See whats happened there. The Expense is reversed and then reallocated properly to the right buckets.

Now, the issue that you are going to have will be that the VAT will be attached to the original reconciled Expenses plus the VAT will have been part of a VAT return and thats the part that you need help peculiar to your software with.

I hope that this response at least helps you understand how the reversal of the expenses should work as the way that you have it currently would annul the bank payment, mess up three expenses buckets and trash the VAT which will already have been paid.

Sorry the response is not more software specific but you are at least now armed with what you are attempting to achieve for when you talk to SageOne support.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

Shamus wrote:

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Not it seems urgent enough to be working on a Sunday though.    

Just read your last post again and realised that if you have "fixed" your bookkeeping for the non VAT items in the manner indicated in your first post for the VAT items then you will have seriously broken the entries so you need to unwind your fixes and reapply the inter bucket transfers as soon as possible as I know that Sage One only keep backups themselves for two weeks.

Did you take a backup yourself before fixing anything? Can you even take backups yourself with SageOne? (Cloudy rubbish).

Hopefully Joanne (who is a much better bookkeeper than myself  Thats not at all true, you are being far too kind, but thank you for the compliment!!!! ) will be able to offer a second opinion assuming that the implied urgency of the title which wasn't, but now perhaps is, due to the backup availability of data for the software being used, has not alienated her from this thread.

Best I think that I now bow out of this one and leave it to others more accustomed to dealing with Sage issues to work with the seeds that I've sown.

Don't do anything with the changes that you have made so far until you have additional input from people who actually use SageOne or from SageOne themselves

kindest regards,

Shaun.

---

What is it with some posters (usually the business owners) who come on saying 'urgent' or 'ASAP' then dont log back in for a few days?!!  To be honest, given the mahoosive work piles I am working on at the moment, I only logged in thinking it was some poor fellow bookkeeper who was really struggling and in very desperate need of urgent assistance for something that was probably preventing them from doing any further work on their clients file!   To then be faced with a non accounting professional on an accounting professionals site,  asking about something that is just an amendment, that clearly isnt urgent did somewhat annoy.  

Not only that but one who has 24/7 access to a support line from the very providers of the software, which isnt even the case with many of our colleagues on here who use the desktop/more complex versions!   But also one with an Accountant who had he not liked the way the poster was undertaking work in sage shouldve given the answers as to how to correct that information in the first place.   

Since then of course there has also been the 'I have limited time' comment, which frankly annoyed me further as if their time was more precious and we are waiting on here to answer anyones questions like a paid for helpline.  Now - I could have misinterpreted that, as it is so easy to mis-interpret such things, hence my then almost radio silence, with the best answer I could give in terms of phoning the helpline.   I certainly didnt mis-interpret the 'I really would appreciate'  type of comment from the poster, as it was totally lacking as is often the case in such circumstances on here and the subject of another recent(ish) post.  

Then imagine my surprise to find out this poster has a bookkeeper (who only, it seems, does the payroll).   So thats three possible sources of information before needing to hit this site, this site for fellow professionals!  Own Accountant, own bookkeeper and the sage helpline. Despite that I gave a couple of big hints about the approach being completely incorrect,  then you posted your great explanation!   Then nothing.  

I for one would much rather assist  my own clients by dealing with my urgent workpile as my time is limited (!) and just help my fellow professionals on the site who have no other option but to ask their questions on here.

Apologies for any typos, Im tired after a busy day of work!

Cheshire wrote:

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£8060 people!!!!

---

Lol.

I wonder why then you logged back in today given you werent expecting a reply from the tone.

I dont have an issue with a business owner doing their own bookkeeping, assuming they dont make a complete foul up of it then I would suggest they dont. Of course I can make a lot of money unravelling such mistakes.

But you made three mistakes here - (1) using a forum which is not for business owners.

(2) We were not feeling the forthcoming gratitude by way of a 'please' in your first post.

(3) saying something is urgent when it clearly is far from the case.

We are now seeing what we often get when business owners do not get what they want from this site, a stamping of the feet, plus not a thank you in sight for Shaun's advice.

Sage support are FULLY capable of answering the question, depends what question is posed and how. Go back to them and complain that they havent dont they job properly.

The Apple store are really good at fixing iphones.

This is a simple issue for an experienced bookkeeper who has used the software. You have both a bookkeeper and an Accountant, I am assuming they are experienced.

So let your Accountant sort out the errors - he can access the software for himself. Will save you some time.

Hi Lesley,

its not simply sour grapes about a number of business owners (I'm not including yourself in this) coming on seeking free advice.

nothing is ever as simple as it first seems.

Before giving paid advice to business owners we would need to perform money laundering checks and get an engagement letter agreed and signed.

Also, to seek advice from professionals who are not your normal representation would need us to seek clearance / permission from your incumbant professional allowing us to assist you. Turn around for that can take weeks.

For an hour or two's work its not worth the hassel of everything that goes around the advice which is why the site is geared towards free advice for fellow finance professionals (book-keepers and accontants) for them to help their clients as all of the checks will have already been performed and all of the required permissions gained.

There is genuinely no animosity here towards you and I like many others here would love nothing better than to stop business owners going to some of the blind leading the blind sites (not going to mention any names) that are out there but we are shackled by things like anti terrorism legislation (MLR) so we actively discourage questions direct from business owners.

I am genuinely sorry but I'm sure that you appreciate that we are all victims here of steadily increasing beaurocracy that whilst in some ways protecting the profession and business in others such as the scenario in this thread the end business user suffers (again) on the good intentions of attempting to make things better for them.

Considering this I am afraid that SageOne support remains your best option pending the return of your usual representation in Wednesday.

Ironically, if they then cannot resolve the issue then if they asked the question on here we would be able to help them to help you where it is much more problematic to help you directly.

Crazy isn't it.

In this instance of course we (unusually) cannot blame the beaurocratic nightmare on the EU as FATF and IFAC are global, not something peculiar to Brussels.

kindest regards,

Shaun.