Sage Bank Transactions - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

skhan · Member

Sage Bank Transactions

VinceH · Expert

The first thing that springs to mind is that perhaps you've entered them on the wrong bank account - by default Sage usually sets up 1200 as your main bank account, and 1230 as your petty cash account, and there may be others (can't remember offhand).

So if, for example, you happened to have 1230 selected when you input the receipts, they'll all be on that account, and therefore won't appear on the bank rec etc for the main account, but *can* show up in the reports, depending on the defaults and settings when you run them.

skhan · Member

Hi Vince,
I have checked this and they have all gone to the 1200 account. I can see all the SR in the transactions screen with the correct date and correct bank account.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

What version and year of sage?

Please provide a screen shot of the Bank defaults screen from the settings tab.

skhan · Member

Hi Joanne,
The version is Sage 50 Accounts 21.5.9.201
Here's the screenshot you requested:

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Sharan
Ok - so its not the default page that is causing an issue.

So - if you order a 'Bank - unreconciled items' report - does this show any of your entries?

Plus some daft ones - I have to ask as I cannot see your sage:-

- if you go into transactions are they all still showing as unreconciled?
- if you click on Bank and then the reconcile button and view history - does the last statement agree with your last Bank rec or are there some statements in there you arent expecting?
- you havent just used a 2015 (or other wrong date) date for the Bank rec 'up to' date? Dont mean that as an insult by the way - Ive just done that one myself after keying a couple of year end entries from 2015, and then wondered why nothing was showing!!!!

Are you using windows 10?

VinceH · Expert

Judging by the two images you've posted, it is what I guessed.

The image you posted in reply to me shows transactions on the bank account with nominal code 1200. The image you posted in reply to Joanne is for a bank account with nominal code 1235.

skhan · Member

Hi Joanne,

So if I pull a Bank unreconciled report the items do not show up.
If I go into the transaction screen where I can edit transactions (the audit trail)I can se the transactions and they show as 'N' not reconciled
I can see all the correct bank recs in the history tab and the last bank rec agrees
I 100% haven't used the wrong date - I have checked and double checked as I thought like you that I had done this, I also check that I posted to the correct bank accounts and this is all in order and I can see it all correct in the transactions screen (audit trail)
If I pull a TB it balances with the bank balance reflecting the transactions.
Yes I am using Windows 10

I am so stumped and do not have sage telephone cover to just ring them up!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Vince
Ah - if you look very closely (or maybe thats just me due to my eyesight) there are two parts to that box in the second image. The second part of the second image is just the 'cash till' default setting and this is showing correctly.

The top part above that box/section looks ok.

I was thinking that the 'cash till' setting might be the '1200' Bank account in which case then, that would explain the problem as the cash till doesnt allow a Bank rec, but all is well with the defaults. But thats not the case so there is clearly something else going on. Hard to pinpoint when you cant see what is on the system.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Sharan
Can you do a more detailed transaction screen print so I can see the full page - all columns end to end? To also show your system date from bottom of the screen. Plus one that shows other trans apart from 'SR' type. Also an eg of a customer activity in pdf?

With any names blanked out as required.

Plus the Bank rec screenshot.

-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 12:01:58 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Vince
Do you think it might be a windows 10 thing - leave you to ask the question about that 'net' thing you mentioned the other day as I have no clue what it is or how to explain how to find out about it. Sorry for the description being vague - you know how bad I am with techy stuff!

VinceH · Expert

Ah, I see what you mean.

I didn't read the label on the bounding box, which says 'Cash register settings' - and I also didn't register that that screen is the Bank defaults, *which you asked for* and instead assumed it was the individual bank account settings.

D'oh.

I'll go back to sleeping it off.

VinceH · Expert

I don't know about Windows 10 - the specific problem their email was about, AIUI, concerned logging in. If there was a more fundamental problem like this, I'd be amazed if they didn't know about it and had similarly sent out emails and were working on a fix. (But whether I'd get one would depend whether it affected my version).

There is now a fix to that .Net Windows 10 problem, though - which I need to post to the other thread, but I'll add it here as well. The fix is an update to the software, detailed here.

-- Edited by VinceH on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 12:11:13 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Ah, I see what you mean.

I didn't read the label on the bounding box, which says 'Cash register settings' - and I also didn't register that that screen is the Bank defaults, *which you asked for* and instead assumed it was the individual bank account settings.

D'oh.

I'll go back to sleeping it off.

Vince - thats a good point about the individual Bank. Just in case that hasnt been checked! Sleep - whats that?!

Sharan - can we have a screen shot of the Bank account settings. Double click on 1200 Bank and its the first screen. Am hoping you have ticked the box for no bank rec by mistake!

skhan · Member

Hi Joanne and Vince,

I have managed to sort it.

I did a data check as I was convinced there was something more to this as I could see the debits and credits (on the debtors ledger, the daybook and all was looking ok on the TB as well) anyway there were a few warnings regarding data splits not linked. I selected the link on how to fix errors and warnings and went through the steps from the website on how to use the recovery tools and this has fixed the problem. I can see all the data now in the bank activity, in the bank rec screen and the unreconciled transactions reports etc

Thank you both so very much for your responses and your time.

Sharan

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Sharan
I didnt even consider that as Ive only ever seen it on very old creaking at the seams sage. Its not as if you have that many transactions!

What you need to do now is double check that the repair work has sorted out all of it - best way is to double check that your debtors and creditors at a set period actually match the TB to the same period. Just run a couple and if they are ok, then you are sorted.

Always run a regular backup (and say yes as part of this process to do a data check).

Glad you have sorted it.

-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 12:46:00 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi again
sorry would forget my head if it was loose today. Just to avoid this happening again - can I ask - do you have more than one user of sage (people with different logins)? usually this kind of issue is caused by two people using the sage at the same time and using the same login in (if only for a couple of minutes!)

So make sure they all login in with different user names ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!

VinceH · Expert

Ditto - I've only ever seen problems like that on copies of Sage where the number of transactions is ridiculously high and date back donkey's years, because the user(s) haven't expunged old data on a regular basis. To have that occur on an installation with comparatively small numbers of transactions is something that I'd be concerned about.

As Joanne says, do a double check and take regular backups - and keep an eye out for the same thing happening again. (As part of the backup process, run that data check so that becomes regular as well).

As to how regular? Well, for me it's pretty much every time I run it - each company I work on in Sage gets backed up at the end of the session.

VinceH · Expert

Surely Sage doesn't allow that? Doesn't it prevent you logging in if someone is already logged in with the same user name?

It's been a very long time since I used it in a multi-user network environment, but I'm sure it used to - primarily because if something went wrong on a previous session, it would think you were still logged in and you'd have to faff about with an internal file to clear the log-in.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Ditto - I've only ever seen problems like that on copies of Sage where the number of transactions is ridiculously high and date back donkey's years, because the user(s) haven't expunged old data on a regular basis. To have that occur on an installation with comparatively small numbers of transactions is something that I'd be concerned about.

As Joanne says, do a double check and take regular backups - and keep an eye out for the same thing happening again. (As part of the backup process, run that data check so that becomes regular as well).

As to how regular? Well, for me it's pretty much every time I run it - each company I work on in Sage gets backed up at the end of the session. Me too. In fact mid way through sometimes to eg before I run the VAT return, or just after a couple of hours of keying. Nothing worse than having to re-do more than that. Besides its so fast to do a backup! (Ive never done a backup and not done the data check.)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Surely Sage doesn't allow that? Doesn't it prevent you logging in if someone is already logged in with the same user name?

It's been a very long time since I used it in a multi-user network environment, but I'm sure it used to - primarily because if something went wrong on a previous session, it would think you were still logged in and you'd have to faff about with an internal file to clear the log-in.

Hmmm. It does come up with an error message and will offer for you to log the other person out, BUT its not error proofed. I have seen it done and caused absolute havoc at a client of mine (just before I took them on they were always using the same logins!) This time - Bank rec screen was ok, but the entries werent showing on the customer ledgers so it was data splits but the other way round! Took an age to sort especially as the sage got to the point of sticking two fingers up to the data check routine so the only way to run that was to put the sage on a completely separate, off server PC to even be able to see the thousands of error messages. Sorted that one out and it happened again - turns out it was one of the members of staff who couldnt recall their own login and was using the main accounts login and for a short while (minutes often is all it takes) the two run alongside each other but bugger it up. Way round it is when they get that error message and force the lock out of someone else then they absolutely must close down their own sage and re-open it up with what I call a 'clean' login. In fact I insist on that clean login every time....saves problems, although now Ive also changed the passwords all round and read the riot act. They are being really good now!

VinceH · Expert

"It does come up with an error message and will offer for you to log the other person out, BUT its not error proofed."

Ah, yes, I remember now; that came in an update somewhere down the line, and it was handy because it saved that faffing about when things went wrong - but I never encountered a situation where two or more people shared a log-in, so never saw (or even thought about) the flip-side of what could go wrong.

"I have seen it done and caused absolute havoc at a client of mine (just before I took them on they were always using the same logins!) This time - Bank rec screen was ok, but the entries werent showing on the customer ledgers so it was data splits but the other way round!"

I would guess it's a timing thing - whereby the other user is saving some new transactions, one part of the database gets updated... and they are kicked off the system before the subsequent parts of the database are updated. (A race condition of sorts).

-- Edited by VinceH on Wednesday 5th of October 2016 01:59:42 PM

skhan · Member

Hi,
Yes we do have two users but the other user does not have my log in details. I will bear this in mind though. Moving forward I will definitely run the check data option everytime I do a backup (which I am also going to do more regularly!)
Joanne I did a few data checks and all seems in order, thankfully.
We use sage drive as I work mainly from home so it allows the office and myself to access all files at any time. Just out of interest I had huge issues getting on to sage after my windows 10 update on Monday .......

Thank you both again
Sharan

VinceH · Expert

Sage Drive. Cloud... I wonder...

A quick look at Sage's site suggests that if you're using Sage Drive, the software accesses the data directly from the Sage Drive cloud server - which rules out one possible race condition I envisaged which may have explained / led to the problem.

However, it's a case of swings and roundabouts: What happens if you input a list of transactions in Sage, click Save, and mid-way through the save your connection is lost? I suspect this could lead to a similar problem to the one you had (just as it might if you switched the computer off mid-save or, as I mentioned above, logging someone off mid-save by logging in with the same details. However, I must stress that I'm just speculating - you'd think a company the size of Sage would think of things like that, and build in some protection.

OTOH, I've seen some daft things (i.e. bugs) in their software over the years, so who knows.

"Just out of interest I had huge issues getting on to sage after my windows 10 update on Monday"

That'll almost certainly be the .Net problem Joanne referred to above, which is now solved.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Ive not used sage Drive as yet - thought that the opportunity to use it dropped off when you no longer have sage cover, didnt want to get used to it and then lose it (its a clients sage I mean this one!)

Lol on the 'size of sage and them thinking of bugs' - so then how does that account for the idiots who design and keep changing sage one. Latest is- it needs you to key the full 2016 in the invoice date instead of 16....never mind that if you are speedy at keying it just falls over - it cant even keep up with a trained chimp! Orrible software.

VinceH · Expert

"Ive not used sage Drive as yet - thought that the opportunity to use it dropped off when you no longer have sage cover, didnt want to get used to it and then lose it (its a clients sage I mean this one!)"

That's part of the modus operandi of anything cloud-based - get the punters used to it, and if possible make them reliant on it, so that they'll pay, then pay again, then pay again, then pay again...

"Lol on the 'size of sage and them thinking of bugs' - so then how does that account for the idiots who design and keep changing sage one."

That was pretty much my point (well, not Sage One specifically, which I've never used). You'd think a company their size and experience would think of these things, and come up with solutions... but they don't.

Even when people point things out and suggest things to them... they don't.

(At least none of the things I pointed out, or raised as suggestions, were ever dealt with or implemented by the time I ceased being a customer - and some of them were basic UI things that would have been trivial to do).

"Latest is- it needs you to key the full 2016 in the invoice date instead of 16....never mind that if you are speedy at keying it just falls over - it cant even keep up with a trained chimp! Orrible software."

Interesting - I've always liked Sage's simple, straightforward approach to dates: Just type one or two digits and tab on - assume it's the day in the current month. Type a third/fourth digit - those two represent the month in the current year.

Sage One is their cloudy crap, isn't it? I wonder if it's using some naff library code? I'd wager something in jQuery or node.js perhaps (i.e. javascript) to validate user input before passing it to the back-end. (And yes, I realise this is probably double Dutch to you! ;)

I have a similar issue with another cloud solution - a British company (fairly local to me, in fact) catering to British customers - and if you input a numeric date, if the first part is smaller than or equal to 12, it assumes you're entering a US date. So for today (er, yesterday technically) I'd instinctively use 05/10/2016 - that would be recognised as 10th May.

Daft.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
Lol on the 'size of sage and them thinking of bugs' - so then how does that account for the idiots who design and keep changing sage one. Latest is- it needs you to key the full 2016 in the invoice date instead of 16....never mind that if you are speedy at keying it just falls over - it cant even keep up with a trained chimp! Orrible software.

This is one of the things I like about VT. If you're in the month already you can just type the day in (eg 9 and it'll assume its 9th October) or 9.10 if you're in that financial year. Also it doesn't matter how you type the date 9.10.16 09.10.16 9/10/16 9/10/2016 etc it recognises it.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Fortunately they havent messed with the dates in Sage 50! I get the impression they have a completely different set of software developers for SageOne who have noooooo idea of all that is great about sage. Saying that, the numpties who decided to 'enhance' parts of sage 50 pro at version 22 managed to include a few howlers in the software. Like putting the calc net button nowhere near the save button, with one at the top of the screen and one at the bottom, instead of next to each other as before. Plus lumping all the 'payments' options from the Bank option together so now you have to choose from a further drop down list between supplier payment/bank payment and the rest. This means one of the most used options in this screen requires extra time to key.....all because they are trying to get everything in the top ribbon - which no-one wants cos half of it isnt used and they could have put some of the less used features into a further drop down menu.

Plus, not sure if you have seen the latest response from sage one about how to resolve a problem when the bank rec option is not working - oh just change browsers! (On this post if you havent and are interested, which you might not be! http://forum.bookkeepers.network/t62741035/newbie-saying-hello/)