Cash Book and a subsidiary Excel / OpenOffice file, containing invoices = sweet as a nut, or headache? [This method seems impossible with cloud cashbooks] Then implement into VT Accounts etc.
Looking at a work around to expensive software that does not need to be well - expensive.
There is a major gulf in price between being able to key items as is under the cash scheme, than as an oppose to accruals and invoices.
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
The issue is where sole traders are mainly cash businesses yet by having the occasional invoice, expenses, overheads etc together with being on the accruals method needs either expensive software, or a work around. (Circa £20 for software which can handle invoices, for a ST to me is expensive)
Now a Ltd can easily absorb the cost of the necessary software, sole trader - not quite so, not if I want to keep some margin!
I'm also considering either postal or scanning of invoices, where applicable.
Much of my thoughts I 'think' would work well, with VT.
Up to now I've collected what I need - and I think compared to other practices I'm missing out and I'm using valuable time up, where others are reaping the benefits using other methods.
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
The issue is where sole traders are mainly cash businesses yet by having the occasional invoice, expenses, overheads etc together with being on the accruals method needs either expensive software, or a work around. (Circa £20 for software which can handle invoices, for a ST to me is expensive)
Now a Ltd can easily absorb the cost of the necessary software, sole trader - not quite so, not if I want to keep some margin!
I'm also considering either postal or scanning of invoices, where applicable.
Much of my thoughts I 'think' would work well, with VT.
Up to now I've collected what I need - and I think compared to other practices I'm missing out and I'm using valuable time up, where others are reaping the benefits using other methods.
Thanks
They can afford it! If they cant and you have to give up margin, give up the client instead!!!!!!!
Isnt VT cashbook free. Then import as Johnny says and do you thing at year end.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
It's sort of a - 'are you doing it with your clients?'
The trouble is with prices is that it is hard to gauge what others charge for XYZ.
I know that being cheap is never a wise move!
1)As an average, ST under VAT threshold - bookkeeping and tax return £600.
2)For me to do the cloud [no jokes] with invoicing mode / addons the price goes to £840. (roughly with say £20 pm for software)
With option 1) I can utilise either VT cashbook and VT, or Excel and Sage.
with option 2) I see no real monetary benefit, time savings yes.
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
Why do they need an invoicing module? Most software can produce its own invoicing or you can use word/excel for free. If they want an invoicing module then they pay for it. If they want add ons (for whatever reason) then they pay for it.
You cant always judge things by monetary benefit (from a clients perspective anyway!) - never under estimate the time saving benefits, the hassle factor reducing benefits or the idiot proofed systems benefits ETC. Some will watch every penny and some will want all they can buy, but then still will not use it. EG I have a client who insisted he wanted bells and whistles reporting on a part of his business (not accounting related in the main) and paid a member of staff full time to do such but never once looked at the damned report. EVER!! Comfort factor, just in case I might need it some day!
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
When I refer to invoices, it is from the perspective of invoices received, from suppliers, and invoices issued to debtors. Accruals, prepayments, money owed etc.
If a client only uses the cash book (software) it is by its nature designed to account for what has been paid and what has been received, there is no scope to account for debtors and creditors, unless the power of the software increases, together with the price.
It is this I am trying to find a work around for.
The trouble is, for me, the competition are offering lets say - cloud (equipped with invoice method / accruals accounting) plus self assessment for £600. They are then getting the client to complete their own bookkeeping leaving just the self assessment to be formed and filed.
They then can take three clients for every one I have, using traditional methods.
How can you compete with that?
This is why I'm thinking of a middle of the road approach. Use a free software package like VT cashbook, if they also need to key debtor and creditor invoices, use a spreadsheet - then use VT to put it all together.
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
Sorry I am reading on my phone so may have got a bit confused...
VT transactions+ allows you to input invoices for credit accounts so you can do normal accrual accounting. It's only about £150 for multiple clients.
I have clients who use their own invoicing software (bought for about £20ish) which can produce csv reports and I just feed it into vt+ with no manual inputting
Lyndsey
They can afford it! If they cant and you have to give up margin, give up the client instead!!!!!!!
Isnt VT cashbook free. Then import as Johnny says and do you thing at year end.
Hi Joanne
Think Johnny was referring to cloud software, which for a micro business gives a 40% increase in the cost of accounting. Invoicing can be free and I saw something recommended the other day that is cloud based (inv24.com)
although personally I would recommend Sliq invoicing. That produces a pdf report of all invoices issued and can be date customised. One of my clients uses it then send me the report every month, which I then convert to excel and import directly to VT. I also use it for my own invoicing. Costs about £50
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Yes there are partner discounts with cloud software. But those prices aren't set in stone and they rise exponentially inline with RPI.
One month you're paying £10 the next you could be paying £15 - £17. Now to me when prices rise like that you have to suffer those yourself. If there were some crystal clear pricings which lasted a year, yeah - I'd consider it.
Clients wouldn't appreciate new letters of engagements stipulating regular price increases!
Ultimately this is what I want, or any other option similar too so as that I can compete with those using the cloud.
VT Cashbook for cash sales / purchases / expenses / other income etc.
A subsidiary Excel file stored on a clients computer to register, log, detail, invoices sent and received.
At quarter end, VAT end, Year end -
Bring the two together into VT Transactions.
Therefore cost is only that to buy VT Transactions.
All of the margin is mine.
It lacks two things, real time reporting, and the only true benefit to cloud software, bank feeds.
Isn't that method above better than the cloud setup because the data isn't held to random, the price won't change unexpectedly, client gets to input the simple transactions, enabling you to check over XYZ, perform sampling on various nominals, taking the census approach where VAT is concerned.
This way of working may have been the method used for years by some but for me it will limit the amount of times I pick up paperwork.
For me this is the middle of the road approach to what it is now, logistically a completely different ball game to one that was five years ago in terms of getting data into a system.
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
Have you looked at Capium? It's something I'm just starting to look at purely to offer clients the cloud if they want it. It's got invoicing, can handle VAT by the looks of it, and (at the moment) is completely free for the bookkeeping side. It also looks accountant friendly, and you are able to do accounts production and submissions for £54 a month (up to 100 clients) if you want to.
I've downloaded a trial and see how I get on but suitably impressed so far (5 mins play lol) I've also booked a demo on Monday.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Yes I can Johnny, and I'm the same. I don't want to put any extra financial burden on my clients if I can help it, but obviously need to keep in check that we still have to earn a crust too. That was Joanne's point in her comment about losing a client, and is a valid one.
That's why I look for alternatives to the main cloud providers , who have jumped on the subscription model with gay abandonment. Market forces will dictate, some will be happy to pay an extra £240 a year, some won't, especially micro businesses, which is my market.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
It lacks two things, real time reporting, and the only true benefit to cloud software, bank feeds.
Did you know you can feed the bank statement into VT Transactions via the universal input sheet. Kris Mcculloch did a great video I watched which explained this really well. I'll see if I can find it. It explains it much better than I could ....
I keep saying this (or similar. Funny how some of the same things crop up ALL the time on here) - some banks provide bank feeds in other ways. Also - most software can take a data dump from a Banks csv (albeit in some cases not as straight forward, perhaps, as some other software).
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Joanne: Quite - I've said much the same before now (in some detail, IIRC, in one of the cloud discussions).
Johnny: Surely the answer to what you were asking is a little further upthread, in the form of Sliq.
Client uses VT Cashbook for the basic payments and receipts etc, and Sliq for their invoicing. You get the data from both to pull into VT Transaction+
The use of 'other' software for invoicing isn't a big deal. I have a client that has several copies of Sage Instant (all purchased separately as needed) for this purpose, and another that uses a program I wrote many years ago just for invoicing* (there were others, but this is the only one that's still with me**). In both cases, I get a CSV file each month to import into the full accounts package (Sage 50 in both cases). Others still use things like Word/Excel, etc, for invoicing.
* Wrote specifically for their needs (so isn't generic), and cuts a few corners in how things should be set up on a PC - so it's not something I'd release to the general public, but it works, and has done for many, many years.
** I got rid of them at one point, but like a boomerang - or a bad smell - they keep coming back.
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
