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Post Info TOPIC: Digital Storage


Master Book-keeper

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Digital Storage
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With the move towards scanning documents have the rules changed regarding keeping physical copies, or indeed is there a specifical rule about keeping physical copies.

I'm going to start scanning myself from May but obviously won't chuck away the paper copies unless I can, but I'm also thinking about those persuaded by certain apps to click and save, job done.  Will they know to still store physical copies if they're supposed to?



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John 

 

 

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I thought the rules stated that you can scan receipts and store them digitally (and therefore get rid of the originals) but that you had to scan all pages, including the reverse - even if it's blank.

However, searching to double check that, I can't find where it says/said about the silly 'even if it's blank' bit - so perhaps it isn't so (maybe I misremembered, or it's changed). The best I can find is in HMRC's compliance handbook:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch13100

"If a person preserves the information contained in paper records on computer by transferring the information into an electronic form, they may discard the paper provided that the method of storage used is capable of

  • capturing all the information needed to make a correct and complete return, and
  • reproducing that information in a legible form.

If the method cannot do these things, the person must also retain the original documentation.

If standard terms and conditions are printed on the back of each invoice we only expect one copy to be retained although a fresh copy will need to be taken as and when the conditions change. There is more information about computer records in CH13400."

That last paragraph is key: If you only have to copy Ts&Cs on the back of an invoice if they change, then there's no need to copy the back in general. But CH13400 is worth looking at to clarify:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/compliance-handbook/ch13400

This one mentions copying the reverse - but it specifically mentions "valuable information on the reverse".

The important point is that the copy has to contain all the necessary information.



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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software

(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)



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Thanks Vince, that's great.  It's interesting that reading 13300 you are supposed to keep original copies of CIS payments and payslips.  Does email count as an original copy?

Also, if the data is stored on the cloud, you are supposed to make alternative arrangements to still be able to access stored copies. Other than downloading the ledgers at the end of a subscription, how many will think to also download all invoices/receipts etc.  (Can you even do that?)  



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John 

 

 

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I'm inclined to suggest a simple rule of thumb.

If the item in the email is a bitmap graphic such as a JPEG, it's probably a scan - and as such isn't the original document. If it's a PDF - specifically, one where you can click/drag to select individual bits of text, and not just a PDF containing a bitmap - then it was probably generated electronically, and is therefore an original.

Where this is likely to get messy is where an 'original' is lost in the post or whatever, and a copy is requested from the sender - and if they scan their hard copy and send that*. If the original was never received, that copy is the closest you'll get.

As for the cloud thing - that's one of the problems I have with it, and one of the points I make when the subject comes up.

It's not a problem for the invoices that are sent to me and which I input and upload, because I keep my copies as well - but I'm sure that in at least one case, they don't do the same themselves.

But a directly related point - which is specifically made on those HMRC pages - is that the sales invoices either need to be kept, or must be possible to 'generate on demand' an exact copy. Which, if a cloud package is in use and it produces the sales invoices, is not a problem... while you remain a subscriber.  The only solution here is to keep copies of the generated sales invoices - and as you say, I bet most don't.

In the modern world, 'cloud' is a synonym for 'can' - because of the worms they contain.

* Although that page talks about things like CIS payments, payslips, etc, I am reminded of someone at one of my clients. When a copy invoice was requested by a customer, he didn't realise Sage could send it by email - he was printing them out, scanning them, and sending the scan. D'oh! :)

Edit: Added the footnote that I initially forgot.



-- Edited by VinceH on Thursday 30th of March 2017 11:46:35 AM

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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software

(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)



Master Book-keeper

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VinceH wrote:

* Although that page talks about things like CIS payments, payslips, etc, I am reminded of someone at one of my clients. When a copy invoice was requested by a customer, he didn't realise Sage could send it by email - he was printing them out, scanning them, and sending the scan. D'oh! :)

Edit: Added the footnote that I initially forgot.


 LOL Vince. Not knowing sage lets you email a copy is one thing, printing it then scanning it and sending the scan is another.  



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John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



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Yes :)

What makes it particularly noteworthy is that the company sends out not far short of 200 invoices at the end of each month by email - a lot of which are more than one page, some quite a few pages. The person that does this does it properly, and it didn't occur to the person above that if they were printed, scanned and emailed that would be quite a long job, so there's probably a better way.

I just happened to be in his office one day when he was doing it that way, so I was able to put him on the right track.

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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software

(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)

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