As a bit of background to myself, I have been working in accounts for about 8 years and qualified as a CPFA (Chartered Public Finance Accountant) but having worked all my time in that sector am now a bit disillusioned with the constant cuts and bureaucracy that come with that sector. So....made the leap to be a bookkeeper in the private sector. Yay! Qualified with ICB and (practice licence in hand!) entering the brave new world of small business bookkeeping as a freelance bookkeeper.
I'm really excited by the prospect of working for smaller businesses and genuinely seeing the impact of my work but at the same time feeling the nervousness I see from looking through other posts here. I'm sure it will be fine but if anyone has any tips for someone just starting out on drumming up business/what to expect from the first few clients then would be much appreciated.
The one thing that has concerned me is that I met with a first potential client the other day and was presented with the following: (Potential) client had been in business for a while, offered services to a single customer, not much non-pay expenditure as all equipment/materials supplied to him, had a number of "employees" he was looking to pay for the first time, worked miles from where he lived. On the first meeting wanted to know - does he employ these people or are they contractors, is he employed, can he claim mileage, why does he need to register with HMRC as a business, should he have contracts with people, what's the best option for a new van - HP, lease, purchase, can he claim for this that and the other?
My first thought was "Blimey! There's a lot going on there!" - is this typical of a bookkeeping client to be in this state of disarray and have so many questions on the first meeting? Where does the line get drawn between offering advice as a bookkeeper and an accountant as I wasn't entirely confident in answering some of the questions - lots of grey areas. Not the sort of questions that get raised on a day to day basis in the public sector.
Any thoughts on whether this is normal/should I be avoiding these kinds of clients like the plague greatly appreciated! Also, any other advice on what to expect when starting out also appreciated!
Yes, I was planning on using Quickbooks - having used it a few times it just feels really intuitive and easy to use. Very different from previous packages I've used such as Oracle EBS. Also was looking at VT which sounds as though it is a great package though not as easy to use as QB. What are your thoughts out of interest?
Thanks for the reassurance. I didn't feel confident enough in my own knowledge at this stage to answer those sorts of questions - lots of grey areas around employer/contractor relationships and potential hot water!!
Just out of interest, yes I do have PII both as requirement of my practice licence and for personal sanity.
I am currently using Sage in the cloud. I have looked and looked again at VT - did use it years ago. Trouble is that I am currently using a Mac, which is not compatible with VT. I am however considering buying a non mac just for VT. The reason I am tempted to use VT is that it's always available and doesn't need wifi.
I use to use QB with a client - it's okay. Thought the webapp was quite good.
I also have a few clients using Wave.
I am also looking at Taxfiler, again, cloud based, but I have read good reviews. I currently file Stat Acts via Sage and self assessment through HMRC.
If you have had a good wander about the site Im sure you will have picked up on some of the 'marketing' bits. General consensus is not to spend a pile of cash on this. Best way to get business is via recommendation and networking although the latter can be time consuming and the lead in is longer. I just say - ask around, including all your family and friends and ex colleagues for introductions to folk with businesses who are likely to need a bookkeeper (even if they arent as you can sell yourself and what you do when you get in front of them!) First client you get once you have a couple of months or VAt quarters or whatever under your belt then ask them for intros. I got the bulk of my business this way.
Re your interesting first client. Without wishing to scare you off altogether - most clients are in a state of disarray and thats why they need a bookkeeper. The disarray just comes at different levels - the more disorganised the more fees you can make.
On the questions asked by this client - well that does in part depend on how you marketed yourself to the said client. (Or how your website marketed you!) There is a blur these days between a pure bookkeeper (up to TB) and what folk actually do - they advertise themselves as Accountants, or providing Accountancy services and most clients cannot distinguise between someone who has the core basics to produce accounts and the Chartered boys. Most certainly would have no clue about what your qualifications means v those with say ATT/Ciot v ACCA/ICAEW etc. Most clients never ask.
If you are offering services to a sole trader, most will expect you to do the whole lot (bookkeeping and Accountancy), again without asking. In fact with a fair chunk of sole traders, in truth there often isnt much in the way of bookkeeping work anyway (although of course there are some big business sole traders out there). Limited companies are more used to services being provided by two or three distinctly different providers, albeit sometimes this may indeed be one Accountancy firm where they deal with bookkeeping team, payroll team then Accountant for the tax advise/year end and other advice, or two/three completely separate providers.
Remember also - in part the first meeting is when clients will, in part, test some ofyour knowledge. A little bit of free advice goes a long way to provide them wih the confidence to engage you, but if they ask lots of questions then you need to re-gain control of the meeting by bringing it back round to you getting the answers to what you need so you can decide if you will take them on, know how much to quote them etc. A 'holding' comment along the lines of 'we can cover that sort of thing off at our next meeting' once you have agreed heads of terms etc would not be unreasonable to most.
Good luck and look forward to hearing more from you.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I am currently using Sage in the cloud. I have looked and looked again at VT - did use it years ago. Trouble is that I am currently using a Mac, which is not compatible with VT. I am however considering buying a non mac just for VT. The reason I am tempted to use VT is that it's always available and doesn't need wifi.
I use to use QB with a client - it's okay. Thought the webapp was quite good.
I also have a few clients using Wave.
I am also looking at Taxfiler, again, cloud based, but I have read good reviews. I currently file Stat Acts via Sage and self assessment through HMRC.
Regards
Chris
Hi Chris
Personally, despite being a generally Sage oritentated practice, I think Sage One is pants. I do like the way they are making changes and try to take feedback on board, but for volume its just no good - so very very slow and cumbersome even with the best broadband speeds. I think sage have accepted they will never win the large volume business on that, but thats ok because they just plug their Sage 50c for any cloud junkies (which Im not!) and of course Sage 50 products for desktop etc.
VT is easy to use once (as our Mr Mod, Shaun would say) forget all you do with Sage. Looks clunky. Drove an Accountant pal of mine nuts but only because their practice is fully Sage'd out and has been for the last 20 years and he couldnt be bothered taking the time to look at the reports. I use it for the Accounts production too. Ive got Quickbooks too if anyone needs me to use it, but currecntly only use it for a local charity Im an Treasurer for. In fact Ive not even yet moved it to my new PC (must find the time to do that!)
Very impressed with what Ive seen so far on Taxfiler. You can use it for the Accounts production instead of VT or just use it for the rest. Wish the helpdesk was a human on the end of a phone, rather than an email as every single time the response back prompts another Q from me, but I get why they dont as it keeps the costs down. Wondering with the huge take up when we will see price hikes which are inevitable with the cloud business model!
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Very impressed with what Ive seen so far on Taxfiler. You can use it for the Accounts production instead of VT or just use it for the rest. Wish the helpdesk was a human on the end of a phone, rather than an email as every single time the response back prompts another Q from me, but I get why they dont as it keeps the costs down. Wondering with the huge take up when we will see price hikes which are inevitable with the cloud business model!
Hi Joanne
I like Taxfiler too, but not too keen on how the trial balance imports. Last time it said I needed to allocate the cash manually, as it hadn't categorised it! At the end of this month I'm going back to VT accounts and then just use taxfiler for uploading to HMRC, as well as using it for SA accounts, as I've tended to use HMRC login for that up to now.
Hope they don't increase the price, you would have thought more subscriptions would create more profit, but as you say, the cloud pricing model tends to drift that way.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hi John
Have to say I didn't use the import function, just attached the iXBRL file. So wish I had more time to play about with such software so I could learn if properly, but might have a dabble with the import big of I get chance this weekend.
How are tax filer with updates following suggestions?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Many people running small businesses should not be trusted with anything sharper than a crayon. Certainly if they were using a spoon with a yogurt they would need to employ the services of a lifegaurd and a medic just to be on the safe side.
You will find that it's a real struggle not to take all access to the company bank accounts off them and virtually run it all yourself. Just wait until you've had clients who have just spent all of the VAT money that they need to pay to HMRC on a new car. Or buy stuff from China without considering import duties. Or change online bank accounts without first getting a print out of their transactions. Or regard keeping invoices / receipts as purely optional.... That could end up as a very long list.
Avoid the dodgy ones. Accept that many clients that you will get are only doing it because they couldn't get employment with anyone else, and enjoy the 10% or so who you can nurture into becoming successful businesses with good leadership, sound financial record keeping and the realisation that the business money and their money are totally seperate.
kindest regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
