ATT/CTA Exam day - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

ATT/CTA Exam day

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

GOOD LUCK DOUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Time passes so slowly before 10am, but then so very rapidly afterwards. Go get em!

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

So true Thanks Joanne

abacus12345 · Guru

Good luck mate.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hope it went well for you Doug.

AlbaBeanCounter · Member

good luck with your exam, hope it goes well.

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Thank you all What an absolute nightmare You get 15 minutes reading time and during this everyone realised we had the wrong papers, the first and last pages were fine but the middle was all on inheritance tax so had to start on the questions we had and wait for ATT to email the correct papers over!! So now I am on a train having a well deserved beer

abacus12345 · Guru

Oh dear, not a great start.

How did it go? Feeling confident?

-- Edited by abacus12345 on Wednesday 3rd of May 2017 02:38:45 PM

abacus12345 · Guru

Can I just ask you a quick question Doug please?

Are there CT600 forms to fill in? You remember from your AAT Tax days there were forms in the book to work through, is it the same for ATT?

Thanks

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Hi Johnny No CT600 forms to fill in, but I have only sat Personal Tax & Business Tax so maybe it might be in the optional CT module but I doubt it as the exams I have done seem to be more about written answers and computations that you would then use to fill out the returns If you go on the ATT website you can access all the past papers and have a look HTH

abacus12345 · Guru

Thanks for that.

Which unit will you be taking as your optional?

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Not really sure a bit of a toss up at the minute between Business Compliance & CT (Won't be Inheritance tax that's for sure after my accidental sneak preview today) I think Business compliance would be easier but I would really like to start taking on Ltd companies so it makes more sense to go for CT Got another 6 months until the next exams are sat so no rush on decisions for now

abacus12345 · Guru

Compliance is NI, PAYE and such? CT incorporating and going further into detail, is that a fair assumption?

Are the first two papers mainly individual and self employed Doug or is there coverage of limited companies too?

Thanks

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Personal Tax was just that but a lot to do with share schemes, leases etc etc but Business Tax covered a broader area including CT hence the 6 folders for BT and only 2 for PT

abacus12345 · Guru

Ok I see - that's quite a difference.

Do you feel confident and comfortable after studying ATT?

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

abacus12345 wrote:
Do you feel confident and comfortable after studying ATT?

Hi Johnny

I certainly feel I have gained a lot from studying ATT although I am not sure if "confident" is the right word to describe it, I think that confidence comes from not only having the knowledge but also the experience in what you do.

What I would say about ATT is that it has taught me how little I did know about tax before and still do now, although AAT is great and I would not be doing what I do now without it, the tax modules are very basic compared to ATT, and I can still not believe that AAT give you an exemption from the ATT Business Tax module if you have passed their Tax unit, I would certainly recommend anyone who wants to work with tax to ignore the exemption and actually do the Business tax unit.

As far as "comfortable" can anyone ever afford to feel comfortable

abacus12345 · Guru

Quite often I think 'what the f... am I doing in this world'

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Douglas Stroud wrote:
Thank you all What an absolute nightmare You get 15 minutes reading time and during this everyone realised we had the wrong papers, the first and last pages were fine but the middle was all on inheritance tax so had to start on the questions we had and wait for ATT to email the correct papers over!! So now I am on a train having a well deserved beer

NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!! Hope you have recovered. Hope they gave you extra time. I had a scenario where a problem occured part way through the exam but the invigilator looked at me as if I was a numbskull and it was just me - nothelped by her saying 'well no one else has complained' - they did about 30 minutes later when they also got to that part of the exam. Didnt help with the 30 minutes of me panicking and thinking it clearly must be me, when clearly it wasnt and I had just been ahead of the others at that point. There was almost a riot!

Let us know how you get on. Sure you will have passed with flying colours.

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Hi Joanne

Yes fully recovered thank you, it was just the shock of thinking that I had not learnt any of this in my studies because maybe I did not receive all the correct study materials, then the relief of finding out that everyone else was in the same boat and it was actually an ATT mistake.

It just completely messed up my way of dealing with the exam as usually they give you 15 minutes to read and annotate the question papers but by the time it was agreed that there had been a mistake this time had nearly elapsed, so we had to just start the exam with the questions we had which was not ideal as the format of the exam is based on Part 1 which is about 13 short questions of which we only had the first 4 and Part 2 which consists of 4 long questions of which we only had the last 2.

By the time the correct papers turned up I was already on the long answer questions, I know all the questions in both parts need answering and it should not matter in what order you do them but it still messes you about when you have spent so long revising and preparing on how you are going to approach the exam only for all of this to be thrown out the window, on top of this they only gave us an extra 15 minutes which I thought was totally inadequate considering the problems that had been caused, but we were told that all these problems would be taken into consideration during the marking process.(Not sure how)

Anyway all over now and hopefully a pass, just got to wait another 10 weeks for the result!!!!

Cheers

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Douglas Stroud wrote:
Thank you all What an absolute nightmare You get 15 minutes reading time and during this everyone realised we had the wrong papers, the first and last pages were fine but the middle was all on inheritance tax so had to start on the questions we had and wait for ATT to email the correct papers over!! So now I am on a train having a well deserved beer

Ouch, opening up a paper and thinking WTF is never a good start is it.

I remember sitting paper P2 with the ACCA and the girl at the table next to me opened the paper. Looked at it for a few seconds them promptly broke down in tears.

Hope that your results make that professional body fau par just a happy anicdotal tale.

I was actually toying with ATT myself as it sounds the perfect level of specialisation for us. However, I've now gone another route in my studies for the next couple of years but no doubt I'll circle back to that one.

All the best,

Shaun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Douglas Stroud wrote:

Hi Joanne
Yes fully recovered thank you, it was just the shock of thinking that I had not learnt any of this in my studies because maybe I did not receive all the correct study materials, then the relief of finding out that everyone else was in the same boat and it was actually an ATT mistake.
It just completely messed up my way of dealing with the exam as usually they give you 15 minutes to read and annotate the question papers but by the time it was agreed that there had been a mistake this time had nearly elapsed, so we had to just start the exam with the questions we had which was not ideal as the format of the exam is based on Part 1 which is about 13 short questions of which we only had the first 4 and Part 2 which consists of 4 long questions of which we only had the last 2.
By the time the correct papers turned up I was already on the long answer questions, I know all the questions in both parts need answering and it should not matter in what order you do them but it still messes you about when you have spent so long revising and preparing on how you are going to approach the exam only for all of this to be thrown out the window, on top of this they only gave us an extra 15 minutes which I thought was totally inadequate considering the problems that had been caused, but we were told that all these problems would be taken into consideration during the marking process.(Not sure how)
Anyway all over now and hopefully a pass, just got to wait another 10 weeks for the result!!!!
Cheers
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Its the stuff of the pre exam bad dreams!

j_khanum · Newbie

Hi doug,
Hope everything went well for you and they definitely should give consideration regarding the mixing up of the papers. Where did you take the exam.
I have been studying att since last month and am due to take paper 1 in november but I am considering if I should do paper 2 as well. I've covered a lot of the personal taxation manual and I'm wondering if I could fit in the study for paper 2.
What exactly are the study manuals that tolley provide for paper 2(business tax and accounting principles) and how long are they. I read in the 'how to pass booklet', that they give you the vat, corporation and business tax manuals. Is that right? I do obviously have the accounting principles book from ATT and have had a (brief) look at it.
Again, well done on completing your exam and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

j_khanum · Newbie

Also, since I just posted my first comment on this forum I thought I would introduce myself briefly,
I decided at the beginning of the year to change my professional (and personal) life and go into accountancy and tax. Initially, I was going to do ACCA but I decided after looking at other qualifications to go into tax and I opted for the ATT qualification. I found tax to be more interesting and it also seemed to suit me more, so well I have been studying the first paper (personal taxation and capital gains) for a few weeks now and so far I really like it plus my eyes have been opened to the sheer level of taxation in this country (and I'm only on paper 1). In terms of where I want to be in a few years, honestly I'm not sure yet. I'm in my late 20s and am basically restarting a lot of my life but I'm open to the challenges. What has surprised me is the number of FANTASTIC qualifications in accountancy and tax but right now, I am focused on studying ATT and may afterwards try for CTA or acca or even cima but I'm just right now taking everything one step at a time and hoping for the best. Again, I kinda wish that I knew earlier about the great qualifications that accountancy has (but that is my mistake alone)- actually just recently I found out about another qualification that tolley does (I'm studying att with them) which is the ADIT qualification which is for international tax- it looks interesting but like I said I'm focused on ATT now and who knows what I'll do afterwards.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Jahanara
Welcome to the forum.

Couple of suggestions-

Keep posts that are not related on separate threads. I would ask the moderator to move your intro but I know he is ultra busy at the mo.

When using a mobile you need to tab down a couple of times and doubly make sure all of your post isn't clumped together as it makes for harder viewing, when paragraphs are better.

Can you please add your first name via the edit profile-->signature section. You might need to login via a PC to do so. This saves everyone having to double check your name before responding.

Personally I would consider looking at ACCA next and get the accounting side under your belt. That way you might well be more easily employable in a the field and can then move to do more tax exams as and when.

abacus12345 · Guru

If you're going for the employed route I'd go with ACCA too.

Should you choose to work for yourself I'd try to at least squeeze in AAT as a minimum to compliment the ATT qualification you're working on.

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

Hi Jahanara

I took the exam in Newport (South Wales)

There is still 6 months until the November exam so I guess it depends on how comfortable you will feel by taking on the extra studies, both Papers 1 & 2 are taken on the same day so it might be a bit intense but saying that at least everything will be fresh in your mind as some of the material from both papers do overlap.

There is a lot more study material for the Business Tax paper which consists of 6 folders, 2 of which (Personal Tax and Capital Gains) are covered by the Personal Tax paper but do not make the mistake of thinking they are the same as they contain different chapters which are relevant to each paper, the other 4 are Business Tax, Accounting Supplementary Examples, VAT and Corporation Tax.

The problem is that if you order the materials and then decide not to take the exam this November they will be out of date when it comes to next years exams, maybe not a lot of changes but I would still not risk using out of date study books especially where Tax is concerned.

Have you got your Legislation books yet?

Good Luck with whichever you decide

j_khanum · Newbie

Yes sorry, I really should have introduced myself better and probably also posted my intro on a separate forum. As I'm new to the forum, I will try to do better.

Yes, I understand why it might be better to do acca after but actually I decided to go for att over acca around the beginning of the year. Tax just seemed more logical to me (if that makes any sense). As I said, there is a great range of qualification in tax and accountancy so who knows what I will decide to do after att but right now I am focused on studying for and succeeding in att.

To doug- thank you for your reply to my question. I was leaning against doing paper 2 as well anyway but just something I wanted to ask. I know paper 2 has more material- so did you study for it in 6 months?
I have also read that there is a lot of overlap between paper 2 and paper 3(business compliance) so maybe you would want to try for paper 3 in november. Inheritance tax seems to be the hardest of the 4 option papers but funnily enough I know someone who is doing a STEP qualification in IHT. I have the legislation books and I am highlighting as I go along but I'm not sure really how much time I will have to use them in the exam. So far I seem to be going over the study manual more than the legislation books. I'm finding a lot of the material interesting such as the employment income, nic, taxable benefits etc but the EIS/SEIS/VCT stuff is a bit difficult. Not necessarily difficult to understand but I have no idea how I will remember all of the qualifying conditions- perhaps I will use the legislation books for that.
Also I cant believe you have to wait 10 weeks for your results but best of luck to you. Anyway idea what you will try for after att- cta or acca?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

j_khanum wrote:

Yes, I understand why it might be better to do acca after but actually I decided to go for att over acca around the beginning of the year. Tax just seemed more logical to me (if that makes any sense). As I said, there is a great range of qualification in tax and accountancy so who knows what I will decide to do after att but right now I am focused on studying for and succeeding in att.

Only reason I suggested it was because getting a job just with tax qualifications might be difficult, as generally (is my understanding, but I could be wrong) the tax specialism is learnt as you go with Chartereds or at least after some basics in Accounting (such as AAT)

Douglas Stroud · Senior Member

j_khanum wrote:
To doug- thank you for your reply to my question. I was leaning against doing paper 2 as well anyway but just something I wanted to ask. I know paper 2 has more material- so did you study for it in 6 months?
I have also read that there is a lot of overlap between paper 2 and paper 3(business compliance) so maybe you would want to try for paper 3 in november. Inheritance tax seems to be the hardest of the 4 option papers but funnily enough I know someone who is doing a STEP qualification in IHT. I have the legislation books and I am highlighting as I go along but I'm not sure really how much time I will have to use them in the exam. So far I seem to be going over the study manual more than the legislation books. I'm finding a lot of the material interesting such as the employment income, nic, taxable benefits etc but the EIS/SEIS/VCT stuff is a bit difficult. Not necessarily difficult to understand but I have no idea how I will remember all of the qualifying conditions- perhaps I will use the legislation books for that.
Also I cant believe you have to wait 10 weeks for your results but best of luck to you. Anyway idea what you will try for after att- cta or acca?

Hi Jahanara

I probably started to study about 4 months before the exam but spent a lot more time in the last month leading up to it, I think it depends on you and your circumstances as to how much time you can devote to your studies, that is where I came a little unstuck for the exam I just took as I fully planned to spend the last month revising but did not realise how busy I was going to get, which is great for the new business but I am sure it will probably reflect on my exam result.

Not sure on the optional paper yet, was thinking of Business Compliance but also wanted to move into Ltd Co work meaning Corporation Tax might be a better option, but then over the last few days I started thinking maybe VAT (decisions decisions) still got a while to make up my mind

As for what you said about remembering about all the shares, as you say that's where the legislation will help, if you know where to find it then you do not need to learn it (I think its BPP that do a great webinar on how to use the legislation)

Yes you do have to wait 10 weeks, only 8 weeks and 6 days to go (not that I am counting)