Earlier this year I lost one of my clients as he was expanding and needed someone closer to manage his books. They are chartered accountants.
I have continued to do payroll but have just received a call from the CA to ask for the PAYE references to submit a nil P11D form.
The Director doesn't have any taxable benefits and I've never done a NIL return before. A/ Should one have been done in the past? and B/ Is it my responsibility as the Payroll side or the accountants responsibility? I did tentatively query question B/ but think it was only a Junior who I spoke to and she didn't know.
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
As far as I'm aware the rulings for P11d and P11d(b)'s changed at the end of last tax year, but this tax year is the first time I've needed to concern myself with P11d's so unsure as to how it used to work.
For 2016/17, I attended a couple of HMRC's online webinars and found out the below information:
A P11d is only needed if any taxable benefits or expenses have been paid/provided.
A P11d(b) is needed if any P11d's have been submitted for the year - showing a summary of these, if any expenses or benefits have been payrolled, or if HMRC have requested one.
If a Nil P11d(b) is due, ie HMRC have requested one but there is nothing to show, you can complete an online declaration stated that no expenses or benefits were provided.
I myself found myself a bit confused by it all and had to confirm with HMRC a couple times before it all sat right in my head.
That wasn't helped by HMRC requesting P11d(b)'s for a few clients. I then proceeded to complete the online form as nothing was due. A couple of days later, I received an email response for all three stating that there was no reason to submit the form as HMRC were aware there was no benefits. Threw me.
In terms of who needs to submit the information to HMRC - I'm unaware.
Reading back I feel like I haven't answered either question, but hopefully someone finds the information useful at least.
Hi both
The changes have caused some confusion methinks. But my understanding is that if there are nil taxable benefits you do not need to report UNLESS requested to do so by HMRC. (Bit like self assessments in a way). Nil returns are then required. Interestingly there has been a post on Aweb about the difficulties of P11ds and Ive enclosed the link below just so you can have a read.
In terms of who should complete it. Well, the short answer is whoever has the information about the taxable benefits. Ok thats not helping I know. If you dont do the Accounts then the taxable benefits are not obvious so you cannot BUT if the Accountant doesnt get the Accounts pack in time for the July P11D deadline then they cannot either. I would suggest that you and the Chartered liaise so that you know who is doing the P11d in future. I would also suggest that the conversation takes place each year so that its not forgotten about. I think the best Ive seen a few years back when I was new to all this was a Chartered firm who did both the PAYE and Limited company Accounts, but at the time I was doing the bookkeeping only. They used to send a letter out every year, ran to two pages, which had all the relevant questions so that they could cover off the P11d stuff opn receipt of the answers. I have got the copy letter somewhere and if I get the chance I might dig it out and post a redacted copy, but dont hodl your breath and you may need to remind me. Although, of course, with the recent changes some is most likely to be superfluous these days.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I panicked a bit when I got the phone call, I can only assume the Director must have had a letter from HMRC regarding it. Joanne, I see your point about taxable benefits and only knowing from the accounts, but the accounts were up to 31st January 2017 and I am finalising them next week, although I do know there aren't any taxable benefits. A good point about liaising too, I shall make a note.
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
