I would like to be able to take care of my husbands accounts and file his tax return to hmrc. He is a self employed driving instructor. I would be doing this manually.
After spending all week looking into courses in my area I have
Decided that I would like to have the qualifications to be able to work from home as a bookkeeper for other small self employed business.
Unfortunately there are no local colleges that can help so I am taking the plunge and investing in online learning. I will have 4 hours a day that I can realistically set aside.
For anybody in a similar situation can I ask what courses/qualifications do you feel are appropriate and which training provider would you be comfortable recommending.
Deborah
PS I would be starting my learning at the very beginning/basics!
The 3 main qualifications are AAT, ICB and IAB. There is another thread on here which discusses the difference between AAT and ICB, and depending on what you want to do (pure bookkeeping or sole trader accounts that will take you beyond trial balance and prepare sole trader accounts and submit tax returns. If the latter then my personal recommendation would be AAT. If the former all 3 main qualifications will be ideal and ICB and IAB are particularly geared towards self employed bookkeepers, although you can go further and learn accounts as well. However AAT do a tailor made bookkeeping course as well which would be worth looking at.
Training companies I know little of, although good things have been said here of First Intuition, who would be a big help if looking at AAT. If you're looking at ICB in particular then Ideal Schools may be better suited, as they specialise in ICB.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
I have never studied with the ICB and only done computerised accounting with the IAB so I can not really comment on them as qualifications however I have completed AAT and judging from what you say about doing your husbands accounts and Tax return then I agree with John that this would probably be the best choice.
As for training providers I done my level 2 using HLC (name has changed now) who did not help much and I have only heard bad reviews about them since and then completed my Levels 3&4 through self study which worked out a lot cheaper.
Good luck with whichever path you choose.
__________________
Doug
These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice
For AAT courses try First Intuition or Premier Training. Nick who used to be with Premier and gave them such a good name on here is now with First Intuition. It's a very incestuous business with trainers moving between bodies. For example, Neil who was at Premier, then FI is now I believe at Training Link sorting out their AAT presence.
Training Link and Ideal Schools also offer AAT but I believe only go up to the end of level III and I don't imagine that you will be looking to change training providers part way through a course. That said, if you are only thinking of bookkeeping they also offer AATQB.
In general as stated by Doug the experience expressed on the site with HLC has been negative although such has from memory been more down to their historic double glazing sales techniques rather than the content of their courses. Traditionally they have also tended to be at the more expensive end of the spectrum.
Other providers that you may wish to consider are Eagle training and Woodgrove tutorials (I believe that Woodgrove is now IAB and Sage courses only).
Hope that helps,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hi Deborah, and thanks to John & Shaun for the mention
It's no secret on here that for self-employment purposes I would recommend the ICB range of qualifications where you can set up in practice on completion of Level 3, which then opens up options in self-assessment tax & payroll management, ensuring you can offer a range of services to businesses in your area. The AATQB option is good, but still very restrictive in the work you can do for your clients......in my opinion.
We are one of many colleges that offer home study training for these options and my advice would be to give a few a call to see who provides the services that best suit your needs, both for study and career progression.
Have a great weekend and good luck with whatever route you take.
Lol. I know which current thread you're refering to Casu
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hello there
Thank you all for your advice!!!! I am currently looking into IAB Levels 1,2 & 3 in manual bookkeeping along with IAB Level 3 in computerised accounts (I just passed my Level 2 Computerised accounts) I will then look at taking a Self Assessment Course once I have completed these to ensure I am able to complete SA tax returns to HMRC online. As I wont have any work experience to contribute to my studies I felt this was the best route for my after reading all the information on the forum.
Deborah
Will this get you work from Accountants? No. Does this course give you VAT training? You will need VAT knowledge. Courses on self assessment don't provide sufficient tax knowledge needed to complete people's tax returns.
You can get experience without working for a firm but without gaining some before being let lose on real clients is asking for trouble (being sued).
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I had posted a message before my previous one but I have hit the subscribe box instead of the post quick reply box!!!!!
If I pass my IAB courses and then the SA course I would only be completing my husbands accounts and SA tax return (he isn't VAT registered....he is a driving instructor so doesn't turnover enough)
I had thought that simply by studying up to my Level 3 this was the road to me taking on other clients but after reading so much advice on this forum I have decided that I would be better to hold off taking clients until I have had actual work experience which I would hope to gain by going back to work when my son is a bit older.
Thank you all again for your advice it has been invaluable for me making my decision and of course all advice is greatfully recieved!
Hello there....would anybody be able to point me in the right direction.....I am looking for information on the course I can study in order to complete the Self Assessment Return online to HMRC......Many thanks Deborah
You need to do the Accountancy side of it before you do the self assessment. So eg AAT level 3 - covering year end accounts. The tax module for sole trader businesses is actually level 4 at AAT level. There is quite a long list of areas you need to be aware of before you even get to the self assessment stage.
Given your earlier comment about waiting for your son to be a bit older before you go this indepth I would recommend that it would be more beneficial to pay an Accountant to do your husbands S/E as a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing in this game and can be very costly.
Edited to add 'eg'
-- Edited by Cheshire on Tuesday 29th of August 2017 06:19:42 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Thank you Joanne......I was under the impression that I should complete my IAB Level 3 manual bookkeeping through my training provider, sit the Self Assessment Course, Pay my membership fee and my fee for supervision for money laundering to IAB, register as an agent to HMRC for my husband and then file his Self Assessment to HMRC online. I had thought I covered everything with the exception of having the Personal Liability Errors and Odmissions Insurance which I am still researching. In your opinion would there be a better route to go down as I am unsure if I have covered all aspects.
Deborah
Hi Deborah
Can I just clarify to make sure I havent read it incorrectly (too much wine flowing this last weekend!) - you havent yet got your manual bookkeeping qualification with IAB? So far, working through the computerised side?
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hi Joanne,
I don't have any qualifications in manual bookkeeping.....I only have basic understanding from studying basic account procedures as one of classes when completing a BTEC in business and finance (so so many years ago), a beginners course in manual bookkeeping I attended last year and from text books I buy!
Deborah
Thank you Joanne......I was under the impression that I should complete my IAB Level 3 manual bookkeeping through my training provider, sit the Self Assessment Course, Pay my membership fee and my fee for supervision for money laundering to IAB, register as an agent to HMRC for my husband and then file his Self Assessment to HMRC online. I had thought I covered everything with the exception of having the Personal Liability Errors and Odmissions Insurance which I am still researching. In your opinion would there be a better route to go down as I am unsure if I have covered all aspects. Deborah
Hi Deborah
I was going to reply to your other post but then saw this one, sorry Joanne for jumping in
You seem to be going to a lot of trouble and expense just to file your husbands SA, as far as I'm aware I do not think you would need MLR unless you are actually charging your husband a fee which I would take it that you are not (I may be wrong on both counts) but why not just start by doing his books and then passing on to the accountant to file the return.
Who is doing his accounts and SA at the moment or has he just turned self-employed?
As Joanne says you need the accounts done before you can file the SA and I would still suggest taking AAT with the Business Tax and Personal Tax as your optional units for Level 4
__________________
Doug
These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice
Hiya Doug,
Thank you for your advise on the MLR......I am really over researching this!!!!
He has been self employed for a many many years and has an accountant who does his accounts and SA. I know I am in a very lucky position to be able to study bookkeeping without pressure to complete my courses at this time.
I haven't looked at any course beyond Level 3.....would you know if Level 4 is the level you study at after 'A' Levels....I think Level 4 maybe the same as HNC (if it still exists....I am a mature student
I dont think I can do online learning for an AAT qualification as I dont work in a business so wouldn't have work experience.
Deborah
Hiya Doug, Thank you for your advise on the MLR......I am really over researching this!!!! He has been self employed for a many many years and has an accountant who does his accounts and SA. I know I am in a very lucky position to be able to study bookkeeping without pressure to complete my courses at this time. I haven't looked at any course beyond Level 3.....would you know if Level 4 is the level you study at after 'A' Levels....I think Level 4 maybe the same as HNC (if it still exists....I am a mature student I dont think I can do online learning for an AAT qualification as I dont work in a business so wouldn't have work experience. Deborah
Hi Deborah
Not sure what the Level 4 is equivalent to as I was not to bothered about the qualification just wanted the knowledge and I considered myself a mature student when I started AAT
Cant see why you can not do AAT online as I did my Level 2 with a training provider and then went on to self study Levels 3&4, I was not working in a business when I started and had no practice experience
Please don't take my word on the MLR check for yourself just to be certain
__________________
Doug
These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice
Hi Doug
Bloomin heck man - in like a ninja! Sorry I got waylaid!
I get the impression that Debbie is enjoying what she is doing and would like to do more than the hubbies books, but you raise a good point about the MLR.
Debbie - I would go one further than Doug suggests, given that you have not yet done the manual booking under IAB (they all use different terminology for how the things progress, eg if I remember correctly manual and computerised bookkeeping are all covered and tested at Level 2 of the AAT), in that you do his bookkeeping purely up to Trial Balance and actually get the Accoutant to prepare his Accounts/year end adjustments, capital allowances and complete his tax return, but also then ensure you can follow all the workings (but bearing in mind that it doesnt mean all sole trader accounts will be the same, as the differing year end dates can have an impact)
If you are seriously looking at doing self assessments I would give some serious consideration to bolstering your chances by looking at the AAT (and indeed even go one step further and suggest you keep training after that as most self employed folk really want you to have a better handle on tax than even the AAT/ICB/IAB will provide). If you are still sold on the IAB level 3 manual level then I would consider two things - (1) have a look at where the majority of work goes from Accountants in your area. (In mine, its a minimum level of AAT qualifieds, in some areas its level 3 AAT). So its about positioning yourself to get the most introductions/work sub contracted out from them as possible as this can be a great source of work. (2) Dont aim for sole traders, go for the strict bookkeeping up to Trial Balance only by working for Limited companies (this is a more accepted 'game'). You can easily makea living doing this and its more regular paid work.
On the actual study issue, night school is good for such training as it gets you out and meeting new people as well as having a tutor there to answer questions as they arise. There are a whole raft of other options open to you though which might be worth considering as well as the actual level of course you want to take before you dive in to dealing with the general public. Doug mentioned HLC (new name Avado) - dont touch with a bargepole. Heard from a fair few students how dreadful they are and I have first hand of their (albeit historic) sales techniques - not impressed was an understatement. But his suggestion of self study is a good one if you are self disciplined and want to work at your own pace rather than that of the slowest classroom student or that of the tutor (which can be too rushed sometimes!). Or there are meet in the middle options on a distance learning basis - from Live Online lectures, to just recorded lectures (on demand), with a mix of support options from the D/L tutors. Some have been mentioned by Shaun above. Three of the bigger companies have not - Kaplan, BPP and Osbourne. All good in their own right, just in different ways. Kaplan and BPP are worth looking up just for the use of their exam centres (BPP win hands down near me - cheaper, newer PCs, much better set up!), not sure if they have them near Belfast.
Debbie - dont fall for the you need to work in a business that some folk say about the AAT. There are thousands of sole practioners who trained via the AAT, who are members of the AAT to ply their trade with some who trained with the AAT but then signed up with the likes of the IAB for a flag of convenience/to get their MLR cover. There are ways and means round the work experience. Its all about positioning yourself by the best possible means to make your business become the most successful it can be. You can command higher rates with the higher qualifications.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Doug is correct - you dont need MLR if you are doing your hubbies books for free. BUT, do not do any other family members books as this breaches the ethics guidelines. Plus is a sure fire way to fall out with so called friends/family as I say all the time!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hi Doug Bloomin heck man - in like a ninja! Sorry I got waylaid!
I get the impression that Debbie is enjoying what she is doing and would like to do more than the hubbies books, but you raise a good point about the MLR.
Debbie - I would go one further than Doug suggests, given that you have not yet done the manual booking under IAB (they all use different terminology for how the things progress, eg if I remember correctly manual and computerised bookkeeping are all covered and tested at Level 2 of the AAT), in that you do his bookkeeping purely up to Trial Balance and actually get the Accoutant to prepare his Accounts/year end adjustments, capital allowances and complete his tax return, but also then ensure you can follow all the workings (but bearing in mind that it doesnt mean all sole trader accounts will be the same, as the differing year end dates can have an impact)
If you are seriously looking at doing self assessments I would give some serious consideration to bolstering your chances by looking at the AAT (and indeed even go one step further and suggest you keep training after that as most self employed folk really want you to have a better handle on tax than even the AAT/ICB/IAB will provide). If you are still sold on the IAB level 3 manual level then I would consider two things - (1) have a look at where the majority of work goes from Accountants in your area. (In mine, its a minimum level of AAT qualifieds, in some areas its level 3 AAT). So its about positioning yourself to get the most introductions/work sub contracted out from them as possible as this can be a great source of work. (2) Dont aim for sole traders, go for the strict bookkeeping up to Trial Balance only by working for Limited companies (this is a more accepted 'game'). You can easily makea living doing this and its more regular paid work.
On the actual study issue, night school is good for such training as it gets you out and meeting new people as well as having a tutor there to answer questions as they arise. There are a whole raft of other options open to you though which might be worth considering as well as the actual level of course you want to take before you dive in to dealing with the general public. Doug mentioned HLC (new name Avado) - dont touch with a bargepole. Heard from a fair few students how dreadful they are and I have first hand of their (albeit historic) sales techniques - not impressed was an understatement. But his suggestion of self study is a good one if you are self disciplined and want to work at your own pace rather than that of the slowest classroom student or that of the tutor (which can be too rushed sometimes!). Or there are meet in the middle options on a distance learning basis - from Live Online lectures, to just recorded lectures (on demand), with a mix of support options from the D/L tutors. Some have been mentioned by Shaun above. Three of the bigger companies have not - Kaplan, BPP and Osbourne. All good in their own right, just in different ways. Kaplan and BPP are worth looking up just for the use of their exam centres (BPP win hands down near me - cheaper, newer PCs, much better set up!), not sure if they have them near Belfast.
Debbie - dont fall for the you need to work in a business that some folk say about the AAT. There are thousands of sole practioners who trained via the AAT, who are members of the AAT to ply their trade with some who trained with the AAT but then signed up with the likes of the IAB for a flag of convenience/to get their MLR cover. There are ways and means round the work experience. Its all about positioning yourself by the best possible means to make your business become the most successful it can be. You can command higher rates with the higher qualifications.
Hi Joanne
I did apologise earlier for butting in, but there is no way I can follow what you've just said so on that note I am going back to my recording of Masterchef!
__________________
Doug
These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice
Ahh Doug - you never butt in really! Plus your apology was spotted - its very nice to hear a man apologise, never happens round 'ere, so it was appreciated. Oh I forgot about Masterchef but my son is cursing he cant go on it anymore unless he tackles the professionals version of the show, even though he isnt chefing any more!), Enjoy!!!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Awwwww Doug & Joanne you make me smile with your banter......I am not watching currently Masterchef but having a glass of wine....Joanne I know its not the weekend but your previous post put me in the mood for one
Thank you both for taking the time to give me advise tonight.....tomorrow I am going to get more information from your suggestions and continue my research
Awwwww Doug & Joanne you make me smile with your banter......I am not watching currently Masterchef but having a glass of wine....Joanne I know its not the weekend but your previous post put me in the mood for one
Thank you both for taking the time to give me advise tonight.....tomorrow I am going to get more information from your suggestions and continue my research
Best wishes Deborah
A mid week lush!! Perfect credentials for being a bookkeeper/Accountant!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
