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Post Info TOPIC: Event management business question


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Event management business question
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I am thinking of registering a new company (Ltd., VAT payable). As I am not an accountant, could you please clarify my situation.

 

Situation.

My company will have an agreement with 5 restaurants. My customer's employees can have a business meetings in these 5 restaurants.

They will not pay for the lunch during their business meetings. My company will pay bills directly to the restaurants on my customer behalf.

 

Then my company will charge my customer for all of the their employees business lunches within a month.

 

Question.

 

According to https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-costs-or-disbursements-passed-to-customers#when-you-can-claim-back-vat, I can not claim VAT back on the invoices from the 

restaurants to my company (is my understanding correct?)

 

On the other hand, can my situation be qualified as a "event management" business and I could claim VAT back from the restaurant invoices?

 

If not, how do event management companies operate in similar cases?

 

Thank you!



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Forum Moderator & Expert

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I'm adverse to giving any advice beyond the need to get an accountant on board as it seems that your business plan has a fundamental flaw in assuming that the meals are claimable for tax purposes.

The site itself is geared towards financial professionals helping each other rather than providing information to business owners and potential business owners. Whilst the advice that you get there may be incorrect you are probably looking for a site such as UK Business forums where directors mislead each other. That aside, as I say, get an accountant. Many practices may be willing to chat with you for an hour for free in order to gain your business. Just be sure that you are really going to be setting up before popping along to the accountants and bank.

Its that last part of the above paragraph that encouraged me to give you the snippet of information about meals as, as I say, there may be a big hole in your business plan (there must be much more to it, the business cant be just about arranging staff lunches and getting kick backs from a handfull of restaurants?).

If you do go ahead with it remember the old saying

"Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity"

The figure that matters is the bottom one.

Also be careful about cashflow.Many a business that on paper is a runaway success goes bankrupt because you can't spend promises and issued invoices are not cash in the bank. You mention that the client is not paying for these meals up front. Who is? How do you know that you are going to get paid by the restauant? If the restaurant expects to get paid directly by the client how do you get your cut? If the client doesn't pay the restaurant does the restaurant then come to you for payment? If the client pays you and you pay the restaurant what happens if the client is late paying / doesn't pay? If a client catches food poisoning and you arranged the meal who is responsible for the employee's time off work?... Do a swim lane diagram a look to gaps and disconnects at lane boundaries for potential holes in the chain of events. Where can things go wrong? If they can go wrong assume that they will go wrong. If they do how do you handle the issue? What insurances are available to you? Does insurance make the venture unviable. How much do you need to make to turn a profit?

I don't want to put you off starting a business but make sure that the idea is viable before risking your money (with either up front investment or future potential loss commitment).

Also try some business networking events... Take what others business owners say at those things with a pinch of salt but the good thing is that you will get to chat with some accountants without first commiting to a meeting on their turf which I know can seem to first time business owners a little like stepping into Shelobs lair.

Right, first few snippets were free. But thats now it and really you need to go the UK business forums rather than dally here amongst the finance professionals.

Good luck,

Shaun.



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



Master Book-keeper

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Why don't the employees just put the cost on a business card. What advantage is there to you paying for it?

I don't get your business plan at all., it's full of holes.

Shaun you are too kind!!

Get an Accountant, will save you a fortune!!!

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 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Forum Moderator & Expert

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Lol Joanne, tell that to the poor totrtured souls who have to work with / for me.

The impression that I got from the above was that the poster was selling restaurants the idea of more customers for a cut of their spend (which is why they are talking about only a few restaurants).

Restaurant owner thinks. Ooh, so this guy goes out and gets me some cutomers and I don't lose anything more that the 10% (or more) discount voucher that I would have given to local businesses anyway (win for the restaurant owner). From there is seems to have more holes in it than your average culander... Although I could be completely missreading it as quite sensibly for any business owner / potential owner the original post desn't actually say much about the business model.

As you (and I) indicate though Joanne, where's the business?... Which might explain why the questions are being asked froma position of online anonymity rather than in an accountants offices.









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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



Master Book-keeper

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Wonder how the newco would check the bill for whatever the employees ate/drank to verify it is correct.

When would the newco pay the restaurants? They usually want cash up front or at the very least before folk leave after eating.

Oh and loads of other things that spring to mind.

cash is king! This one has been deposed!

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 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Forum Moderator & Expert

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Think that we could definitely provide a good service in convincing potential business owners why they should keep their money in their piggy banks rather than "investing" it in a business.

Even if we charged them 100% of the start up costs of their business I reccon long term we could save them a fortune Joanne.

Thats it, we can start a site Dragons den... We don't give out investments but rather simply tell people exactly whats wrong with their business... So all the reasons that one watches the actual Dragons Den (who watches it for the one's who get an investment! Same as who watches the apprentice to see who gets hired, or those talent programs to see the contestants who actually have some talent... Nope. we're a train wreck identification service).

Whatever happened to good old fashioned businesses that actually made stuff rather than just trying to make easy money off the back of other businesses.



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Shaun

Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.



Master Book-keeper

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Funny but I was also just thinking of a mix of Dragons Den (I'm out, ie my money is safer left in a big pile in a big ol' empty warehouse) and The Apprentice 'you're fired' after The Shug hears back from his angry gaggle of mates who were all ripping apart business plans.

The other thought that came to mind was about locking up those sharpened crayons.

Plus the fact that we do not have anywhere near enough business meetings in restaurants. I'm off to book some.



-- Edited by Cheshire on Sunday 21st of January 2018 01:04:07 AM

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 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



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"Whatever happened to good old fashioned businesses that actually made stuff rather than just trying to make easy money off the back of other businesses."

I have nothing to add - I just wanted to quote that paragraph, because this sort of thing annoys me.



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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software

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Master Book-keeper

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VinceH wrote:

 

I have nothing to add


Neither has the OP, not even a thank you to Shaun.

Typical.



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 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



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Thank you for your replies. It is just a part of the project but it gives me some food for thought.

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