The Book-keepers Forum (BKF)

Post Info TOPIC: Client repays customer
Jay


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 262
Date:
Client repays customer
Permalink Closed


Partnership received £800 during 2016/2017 for work undertaken.

Customer unhappy with the work, threatened legal action and client eventually repaid the £800 during 2017/2018. No legal fees or order to pay.

Would appreciate views on how to show this within VT.   I have considered few options that will all give the correct figures   but some must be wrong  no

 

Thank you

 

 

Jay

 

 

 



__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 3904
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Jay

Personally I would record it as a deduction against  income.  If the original was paid against an invoice then Sales Credit Note and paid from the bank against the customers account, which will nett it off.

If not then PAY from the bank against income, you'll get a warning pop up which you can ignore 



__________________

John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.

Jay


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 262
Date:
Permalink Closed

Good morning John,

That was my first option, many thanks for your assistance.

For some reason I had concerns about the issue crossing 2 accounting periods, but could not find any reference to this to put my mind at rest.

 

BW

 

Jay

 

 



__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 3904
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Jay

Yes, that crossed my mind too, but the latter transaction was decided in the latter year, so personally I think it's acceptable. What do others think?



__________________

John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1313
Date:
Permalink Closed

Leger wrote:

Hi Jay

Yes, that crossed my mind too, but the latter transaction was decided in the latter year, so personally I think it's acceptable. What do others think?


 Hi Jay/John

My only concern would be that you would now have the 2016/2017 turnover overstated by £800 and the 2017/2018 understated by £800 but in saying that as long as you can document the evidence showing the refund has been paid and was not a deliberate attempt to manipulate the turnover I would be happy to account for it by reducing 2017/2018 Income.

Would the £800 make a big difference to the accounts in both years, as in did they pay tax on this amount in 2016/2017?



__________________

Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice

Jay


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 262
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Doug,

Thank you for your reply which highlighted my concern.

2016/2017 partnership profit £14k with neither partner having a tax liability on personal SA Returns

2017/2018 partnership profit £7k   with neither partner having a tax liability on personal SA Returns. (with the £800 being deducted from income).

So no tax implications for either year.

Doing it any other way than suggested would be a paper exercise with no loss/gain to HMRC, but was not sure if HMRC would see it that way.

 

BW

 

Jay



__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi guys
Its a question of materiality so my understanding generally if not more than
0.5% of turnover
1% of total assets
5% of pre tax profits
= not material.

It fails on the last. How about the 1st?

Is just a paper exercise, but might be worth doing.

Interested in what Shaun would suggest.

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1313
Date:
Permalink Closed

Jay wrote:

Hi Doug,

Thank you for your reply which highlighted my concern.

2016/2017 partnership profit £14k with neither partner having a tax liability on personal SA Returns

2017/2018 partnership profit £7k   with neither partner having a tax liability on personal SA Returns. (with the £800 being deducted from income).

So no tax implications for either year.

Doing it any other way than suggested would be a paper exercise with no loss/gain to HMRC, but was not sure if HMRC would see it that way.


 Hi Jay

Seeing as there is no difference to the tax liability in whichever year it is accounted for, it certainly would not be worth HMRC looking into it.



__________________

Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1313
Date:
Permalink Closed

Cheshire wrote:

Hi guys
Its a question of materiality so my understanding generally if not more than
0.5% of turnover
1% of total assets
5% of pre tax profits
= not material.

It fails on the last. How about the 1st?

Is just a paper exercise, but might be worth doing.

Interested in what Shaun would suggest.


 Hi Joanne

Didn't see your post when I replied was not trying to discount what you said its just that I am very slow at typing!



__________________

Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 3904
Date:
Permalink Closed

Artois wrote:

 Hi Jay/John

My only concern would be that you would now have the 2016/2017 turnover overstated by £800 and the 2017/2018 understated by £800 


 But has it been over/understated Doug?

at the end of the first financial the figure was correct.  They've only refunded because the customer has kicked up a stink, and rather than face legal action, they've settled.  That decision was taken in the second year and IMO should be reflected in the second year.

I could be wrong, but that's how I view it. 

 

Thanks for the reminder on the materiality test Joanne, no doubt it fails on turnover as well. That only applies if the income shouldn't have appeared in the 16/17 accounts, yes?



__________________

John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.

Jay


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 262
Date:
Permalink Closed

Thanks to you all for your replies, really appreciated. 

I have just spoken with HMRC helpline and eventually transferred to a technical inspector. 

Extremely helpful, and  said his response was based on how to deal with the repayment only as 2016/2017 income was correctly accounted for at the time.

Rather then reducing 2017/2018 income to cover the repayment, treat it as an expense  "other allowable  business expense"

BW

 

Jay

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 3904
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Jay

Thanks for the update, and seems fair enough.



__________________

John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1313
Date:
Permalink Closed

 

As I said my only concern was that the refund had a direct link to events in the previous years accounts and the turnover, but if HMRC say that its fine then happy days.



__________________

Doug

These are only my opinions of how I see things and therefore should not be taken as advice



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:
Permalink Closed

Edited out. Changed my mind about what I posted.

 



-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 11th of April 2018 08:15:38 AM

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 252
Date:
Permalink Closed

Interesting response from HMRC.

We'd have raised a credit note against the original invoice here.

__________________

Julie



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 3904
Date:
Permalink Closed

Hi Julie

The original invoice had been paid from what I can gather, so the client also needed refunding. Where would you have allocated the refund to?  (I'm assuming this is a one off customer) 



__________________

John 

 

 

 Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.

Jay


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 262
Date:
Permalink Closed

Thanks for the continued updates.

16/17 cash payment for work done, included in accounts as correct at the time. 

Mid 17/18 needed to be repaid.

Cannot use a credit note as don't think they will be using our clients again as they threatened to sue them.

Neither year created a tax liability for either partner.

I tend to think HMRC have taken a sensible approach.

BW

 

Jay

 

 



__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
©2007-2024 The Book-keepers Forum (BKF). All Rights Reserved. The Book-keepers Forum (BKF) is a trading division of Bookcert Ltd. Registered in England Company Number 05782923. 2 Laurel House, 1 Station Rd, Worle, Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset, BS22 6AR, United Kingdom. The Book-keepers Forum and BKF are trademarks of Bookcert Ltd. This forum is a discussion forum only. There will usually be more than one opinion to any question and any posting should not be viewed as a definitive solution. No responsibility for loss occasioned to any person acting or refraining from action as a result of any posting on this site is accepted by the contributors or The Book-keepers Forum. In all cases, appropriate professional advice should be sought before making a decision. We reserve the right to remove any postings which are offensive, libellous, self-promoting or engaged in covert marketing. We will not notify users of removals. The views expressed in the forum posts are those of the individual and do not necessary reflect or agree with those of The Book-keepers Forum. Any offensive or unsuitable posts will be removed by the moderators. Any reader of this forum can request for a post to be looked into by sending an email to: bookcertltd@gmail.com.

Privacy & Cookie Policy  About