MTD Agent account - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Blonde Accountant · Senior Member

MTD Agent account

YLB-HO · Guru

At the moment HMRC have not arranged for the agent service account to show much, and will not for some time. If you sign a client up for MTD you will no longer be able to submit returns via the old account, and the old account will provide this info!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Nicola
As Frauke says, there is no intention for you to see clients on the new ASA. Bonkers yep!!

If your client does not need to sign up to MTD (I've below threshold, voluntarily registered), then leave them on your old agent account. If MTD sign up is required, get a copy of their VAT certificate before you do anything, then link them in via your new ASA.

Leave all your other agent clients on the old agent accounts.

You can view the MTD info via th MTD software.

HMRC at its best, trying to make tax easier and provide visibility to agents. Oh, did I say that with a ton of sarcasm? Bloody ridiculous.

YLB-HO · Guru

Cheshire wrote:
Hi Nicola
As Frauke says, there is no intention for you to see clients on the new ASA. Bonkers yep!!

If your client does not need to sign up to MTD (I've below threshold, voluntarily registered), then leave them on your old agent account. If MTD sign up is required, get a copy of their VAT certificate before you do anything, then link them in via your new ASA.

Leave all your other agent clients on the old agent accounts.

You can view the MTD info via th MTD software.

HMRC at its best, trying to make tax easier and provide visibility to agents. Oh, did I say that with a ton of sarcasm? Bloody ridiculous.

Hi Joanne,

HMRC are intending to let us see everything on the ASA eventually but it taking longer to do. The have only just managed to start rolling it out on business accounts, and hope to start rolling it out on the ASA in a couple of months. I think they are have a few issues with meeting the original deadlines so this part of the roll out has been delayed!

I signed up my ASA account at the beginning of this year, and have noticed the odd change, but it has been so slow. As always HMRC have not be as prepared as they should have been.

johnhemming · Senior Member

You can see lists of clients (at least by vat numbers etc) by looking at the allocations.

When you go into the ASA and click on Manage user access to your agent services account you should get a tab with a list of clients.

If you set up MTD with ASA credentials it is also possible using MTD software to look up the results of VAT api calls (lists of returns, payments, amounts outstanding) just by typing in the vat number (into the MTD software). Mine does it this way, I don't know which other software has this option.

Blonde Accountant · Senior Member

Hi, thanks everyone for your replies, I'll have a look at it later
Thank-you :)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks for the update on the client list John and Frauke. Not been in mine for a bit and mustve slept when that news came out.

YLB-HO · Guru

Cheshire wrote:
Thanks for the update on the client list John and Frauke. Not been in mine for a bit and mustve slept when that news came out.

This was published by the IAB at the end of last week, about the latest additional changes - so some of the news is only a few days old!

https://www.iab.org.uk/hmrc-signing-up-to-agent-services-account-and-making-tax-digital

Leger · Master Book-keeper

YLB-HO wrote:
Cheshire wrote:
Thanks for the update on the client list John and Frauke. Not been in mine for a bit and mustve slept when that news came out.
This was published by the IAB at the end of last week, about the latest additional changes - so some of the news is only a few days old!
https://www.iab.org.uk/hmrc-signing-up-to-agent-services-account-and-making-tax-digital

Very helpful, thank you Frauke. I'm doing my ASA this afternoon (didn't get chance yesterday) so I'm hoping it goes relatively smoothly. blankstare

Blonde Accountant · Senior Member

Hi, I have linked my client from my old account to my new agent account, is this all I have to do as I am trying to submit their vat return and it won't link the software (sage one), it just says that there is a problem. Do I have to ask the client to authorise me? (I did follow this link, entered his vat reg and start date to be told that he had not signed upto use software)

Any help greatly appreciated

Nicola

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Have they signed up for mtd? Have they authorised their software. Process here:-
www.gov.uk/guidance/making-tax-digital-for-vat-as-an-agent-step-by-step

But....check out my earlier post and John H's update comments from hmrc.

YLB-HO · Guru

I noticed yesterday that I can see all my clients who I have signed up for MTD on my new agent services account. I tried to add someone who I am waiting for them to receive my agents code, and the system would not allow me to sign them up for mtd as i had not yet been appointed agent.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I thought the new authorisations via the new agents account resulted in a link being sent to your clients in minutes rather than via the post.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I might be making it up, my head has been mashed since the start of 2018. I cannae remember

johnhemming · Senior Member

There are two new systems for authorising agents.

One uses the ASA and HMRC's website.
The other uses the Agents API.

I have almost got the second one to work. HMRC are looking in detail at the hamsters that run round in wheels powering the HMRC technical systems to see if there is something that the hamsters are doing wrong (or some other technical issue) as to why the API is not working. To be fair to HMRC on this they are being very very responsive and I am impressed. I sent them another iteration of stuff yesterday and they may get it all to work.

I have not yet managed to get the one via the website to work, but am happy to talk you through my experiences with it on the phone.

I have a number of different legal entities and accounts which are essentially all me with different hats on.

The API has the potential of being the most efficient, but the GUI options should be quick. You should get a URL to try out.

If you are interested in an example I can probably create one for your own legal entity (Fallows Hall Ltd), but we should talk about that off the forum. I do have space for phone calls today if you are interested. Just email me at john@hemming.email to set up a time.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks John
Quick one - Im with clients all day today. Will try to revisit this Tuesday/Wednesday.

Thanks for the offer.

johnhemming · Senior Member

I am around next week, but on holiday the week afterwards. My team can handle vat submissions, but not the agents API as that is new.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Blonde Accountant wrote:
Hi, I have linked my client from my old account to my new agent account, is this all I have to do as I am trying to submit their vat return and it won't link the software (sage one), it just says that there is a problem. Do I have to ask the client to authorise me? (I did follow this link, entered his vat reg and start date to be told that he had not signed upto use software)

Any help greatly appreciated

Nicola

Hi Nicola, have you also signed them up individually for MTD? I made this mistake and although I had copied across the clients to the ASA, I hadn't signed them up to MTD. Follow this link if you haven't already done so

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/vat-through-software/sign-up/client/vat-number Log in using your ASA credentials.

Once that's done you'll get an email in roughly 72 hours to say that you can now use whatever software you intend to use, once it is set up.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

YLB-HO wrote:
I noticed yesterday that I can see all my clients who I have signed up for MTD on my new agent services account. I tried to add someone who I am waiting for them to receive my agents code, and the system would not allow me to sign them up for mtd as i had not yet been appointed agent.

Hi Frauke

Does the new authorisation replace the 64/8 online? I've just signed up a new client via a 64/8 but I'm thinking of what happens now I have the ASA.

johnhemming · Senior Member

The new authorisation systems (both of them) replace the 64/8 and the online version of that which posts a code to people. It is all done with a link and a government gateway.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Thanks John

Blonde Accountant · Senior Member

Leger wrote:
Blonde Accountant wrote:
Hi, I have linked my client from my old account to my new agent account, is this all I have to do as I am trying to submit their vat return and it won't link the software (sage one), it just says that there is a problem. Do I have to ask the client to authorise me? (I did follow this link, entered his vat reg and start date to be told that he had not signed upto use software)

Any help greatly appreciated

Nicola
Hi Nicola, have you also signed them up individually for MTD? I made this mistake and although I had copied across the clients to the ASA, I hadn't signed them up to MTD. Follow this link if you haven't already done so
https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/vat-through-software/sign-up/client/vat-number Log in using your ASA credentials.

Thank-you Joanna and John, I hadn't signed him up individually, just tried and I can't as it is too soon to the vat qtr, so I have to submit the old way and sign up after-there will be no repercussions to the client :)

Once that's done you'll get an email in roughly 72 hours to say that you can now use whatever software you intend to use, once it is set up.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Blonde Accountant wrote:
Thank-you Joanna and John, I hadn't signed him up individually, just tried and I can't as it is too soon to the vat qtr, so I have to submit the old way and sign up after-there will be no repercussions to the client :)
Hi Nicola
Saw this today and confirms what you say above
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/making-tax-digital-no-penalty-for-missing-first-filing

johnhemming · Senior Member

HMRC are actually asking people not to register for MTD for now (if it is the 4-6 stagger).

Artois · Guru

So as much as I have tried to resist the time has finally arrived for me to get this all up and running, been lucky so far as in my only 2 VAT clients are voluntarily registered and still below the threshold so have been able to continue using the old system however this is about to change.

So thought I would set up my ASA today and found that when I input the information required it tells me that I have already set up a ASA and that I should log in using my log in details, as far as I was aware the only log in details that I had were from when I set up my Ltd Co agent account, but on looking back through my paperwork I do indeed have an ASA print out showing my Company name and an account number, also at the top of the page I have handwritten a user ID but when I try this it seems that it is just another Gov Gateway account but in my individual name, I did try the HMRC online services earlier and they said I would need to phone the VAT helpline but they are not open until Monday.

Has anyone got any ideas on what I have done and if so how to rectify it

Many thanks

johnhemming · Senior Member

What happens if you start from here:
www.gov.uk/guidance/sign-in-to-your-agent-services-account

Artois · Guru

johnhemming wrote:
What happens if you start from here:
www.gov.uk/guidance/sign-in-to-your-agent-services-account

Hi John thanks for the reply

That link works fine using the log in I had wrote at the top of my page and it opens up straight into the new ASA account under the Ltd but it is strange that when I use it on the normal log in page that I usually use it just comes up with the normal Gov Gateway account but in my individual name.

Thanks for your help but I am sure I will be back on soon with some more problems, Cheers

johnhemming · Senior Member

It depends where you start. The way I have designed my system is that you can log in to any page (ie you bookmark where you want to get to and if you are not logged in the system asks for the password). I think HMRC are using a similar approach.

Hence it is worth getting a list of the pages that you can log into and their URLs.

I must admit I tend to just google this.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Artois wrote:
johnhemming wrote:
What happens if you start from here:
www.gov.uk/guidance/sign-in-to-your-agent-services-account
That link works fine using the log in I had wrote at the top of my page and it opens up straight into the new ASA account under the Ltd but it is strange that when I use it on the normal log in page that I usually use it just comes up with the normal Gov Gateway account but in my individual name.

And this is the most stupid thing about the ASA. The link above takes you to your ASA but try it a different way and goodness knows where you end up, as you found. Want to add a client for MTD that is on your agent gateway, that is a different link altogether. Why can't they have just put it all under one roof?

Artois · Guru

Cheers, thanks for the help

johnhemming · Senior Member

johnhemming wrote:
There are two new systems for authorising agents.
....
The other uses the Agents API.

I have got this working now (for some gateway accounts). It takes a few minutes to appoint an agent this way. It may be the case that the appointing client has to have joined MTD already, however, but I am not sure.

johnhemming · Senior Member

I have done a video about the new ways of appointing agents (the Web/GUI and the API) which is here:
www.youtube.com/watch

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi John
Thanks - just popped it up ready to view later.

Is this just the new ASA?

The one Im struggling with at the mo is the old agent account - snail mail being used, or post being dumped in the bin as they are certainly not reaching my clients.

johnhemming · Senior Member

It is the ASA, but also the Agents API (which comes with it, but works differently) and AML. The difficulty with the new agents appointment system is that not every taxpayer is set up to be able to appoint agents via this route. In theory someone can appoint an agent without actually having a gateway, but I have never tried this and I don't know if it works or not.

If it does work it would be a fast way of setting up new clients.

-- Edited by johnhemming on Monday 2nd of September 2019 04:00:07 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thank John
You can appoint an agent on the old system without them having a gateway. Ive got a VAT client who has no gateaway. They are currently under the VAT threshold, so no need for MTD, so debating (with myself) if they should in fact have a gateaway for future (personally Ive always thought they should as Im future proofing them having access as well as any agent!).

I might try to see if the system works with another one, again under the threshold, that I have just taken on recently. Will let you know if I do.

johnhemming · Senior Member

I am trying to get the documentation from HMRC that explains how it all works, but have not got anything as yet. Hence all I have is trial and error.