MTD software problems - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

VinceH · Expert

MTD software problems

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Vince

Sorry I can't help with the software you're using but have a look at John Hemming's bridging solution, see if it will work through that. John Has posted here and has been extremely helpful on all 3 forums I frequent. If you find that unsuccessful I'm sure John will be able to investigate and identify what the issue is.

https://www.vat.direct/

VinceH · Expert

Thanks for the suggestion, John - but between posting the above and coming back to look again, I've found the problem.

The 100pcVATbridge developer sent me a sample sheet to compare with my own, to see if I could spot the problem. Initially, I cheated and copied the figures into his sheet and used that (sh, don't tell HMRC!) - but I then looked in more detail and spotted that I was doing a facepalm.

I was naming individual cells as *ranges* with the names needed by the software. What I should have been doing was just naming the actual cells. D'oh!

(All sorted now.)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Haha, Vince so glad you have it sorted.

I was going to suggest 'cheating' if needs be, whilst hoping John H would be on to offer something more sensible, given we are in the soft landing period anyway.

VinceH · Expert

Yes... I'm glad it's sorted as well... well, sort of sorted! :/

I've now done my second return (early 'just in case' - with the client's agreement, because this client pays by DD - I had to be sure they were prepared if the DD comes out early as a result of submitting early).

But it's highlighted a problem with the first one. They weren't on a DD, so it originally needed to be done by today to give them time to pay. However, the director asked me on Monday to set up the DD for them again. I pointed out that I don't know if it'll be accepted for this quarter, then did so. After I had, I noted that it said something like the earliest a payment can be taken on this DD mandate was 5th August. That seems okay - ordinarily the payment would come after that date anyway.

Submitted the return, and the data returned gave "not known" as the payment indicator, and the charge reference. Also, the software tells me the VAT return is submitted - on the obligations screen it shows the quarter as fulfilled - but the 'View' button to view the submitted return is faded.

Submitted the other one, and that says "DD" as the payment indicator, with a 14 digit code for the charge reference. On this one, the return is marked fulfilled, and I can click the view button to see the figures.

So for the first one, I don't know if payment is going to be taken by DD or not. If not, the director needs to have payment with them by 7th - and then there's a risk that he does that AND payment will come out by DD.

FFS! Oh... wrong thread! ;)

(Mind you, I know he's behind with his payments - so I wonder if this is causing the system to wobble slightly. I'll log-in directly later and see how quickly it shows things via the normal portal, and if that gives me any useful info, and if necessary give him a call.)

VinceH · Expert

Aha!

It pays to check email.

Notification from HMRC of the client's DD being taken on the 12th!

It worked! \o/

johnhemming · Senior Member

It is worth trying out a few options. Some software offers more facilities than other software and you won't know without a bit of experimentation.

For example I have just put live a monitoring system which looks at all the vat accounts (whether submitted via QB, Xero, Sage, or some other bridging system) and tells you via email once a month or weekly what the status is. I had people complaining that HMRC no longer sent out reminder emails.

I am pleased to say that I only have one live problem at the moment (a client with a missing obligation which is an issue for HMRC which they have not dealt with yet). Hence if anyone has any problems I am happy to help with those (no charge).

I am also making some progress with the Agents API although that is stlll stuck with HMRC at the moment as well, but I don't have anyone using that at the moment.

VinceH · Expert

Interestingly, after posting the above, I realised that I hadn't had an email notifying me of the DD for the other client - the one that supposedly went smoothly.

Logging in to their account, it tells me payment needs to be made by 7th August (as though there wasn't a DD set up). Immediately below that, I can see the direct debit details; it is definitely (still) set up.

I suspect this might be related to the "change of VAT direct debit details" email I received on 8th July, which quite clearly says the change is purely at their end and includes the words "there is no need to take any action".

It's quite a significant sum of money, so it's hard not to worry about this and the possibility of having an argument with HMRC about whether or not a penalty is due if the DD isn't taken and they claim the company (or rather I) should have done something.

*Saves screen grabs and any other resource showing everything that can be done has been done!*

johnhemming · Senior Member

When you got the receipt did it have "DD" in it?

This is an example of a receipt from this morning:
2019-07-31T09:56:50.000Z paymentIndicator:DD formBundleNumber:096000547142 chargeRefNumber:XQ007367117868

This is a live receipt from my own personal VAT number (hence I don't mind publishing the details). I have a Direct Debit on that number. Hence it has: paymentIndicator:DD

That means that HMRC know I owe them some dosh and they have direct debit details.

I don't know why, but I have not had an email relating to this from them.

I am, however, not worried as I have the receipt. I will also keep an eye on the bank to see that it goes.

The above is a raw receipt. Software might analyse it in some way.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Glad you got it sorted Vince.

VinceH · Expert

Hi John (H) - yes, as I said above: the payment indicator says DD and there's a 14 character code in the charge ref field.

It's probably just a bit of paranoia on my part; I'll try to forget about it until Monday, and then I'll check again. If I see no email notifying of the DD* and behind the log-in it still says payment is due by 7th, I'll give them a ring.

(If need be I can set up a payment that day to reach them by 7th - but I'd rather not be setting up payments for that sort of value *that are supposed to be on DD* if I can help it. The possibility of it then being taken by DD as well is not nice - I doubt my client would be too happy if that happened, especially for the amount of money involved).

* Worth remembering that it's a variable DD, so ordinarily they're supposed to notify you of the amount before it's taken. It could be argued that's not necessary where you've told them the amount (which really is how VAT is done, but still...)

VinceH · Expert

"For example I have just put live a monitoring system which looks at all the vat accounts (whether submitted via QB, Xero, Sage, or some other bridging system) and tells you via email once a month or weekly what the status is. I had people complaining that HMRC no longer sent out reminder emails."

That's a pretty useful idea.

(But since when are they no longer sending out reminder emails - I still seem to be receiving them?)

johnhemming · Senior Member

I am not getting emails about the vat returns from HMRC. I have now got 4 vat accounts (although one will close down after this quarter and one was a sort of mistake where I created a company in a rush and then found I didn't need it). I get a lot of emails from HMRC, but none saying "time to do your vat return".

What I have done is to write a status report that first checks the status on all of the vat accounts for each user of the system then sends out an anonymised summary of those to the main account holder. I will probably change this over time to highlight the accounts where a vat return is due.

The idea is that for an agent that they can once a week get this email to see where the problems are developing. What is important is that it looks at each of the accounts regardless of what system is being used to submit the vat return (or self assessment, trusts etc).

VinceH · Expert

Following up John's comments about the reminder emails... I haven't had any this quarter for clients on MTD. Those not on it do get reminders. As I said above, I did have them last quarter - but that's probably because I did the MTD switch close to the deadline; the emails were sent while they were on the old system.

Anyhoo.

The software I elected to use - 100pcVATFreeBridge... I've just used it to submit another, and noted an update available. An important feature of this is that it can now apparently take a CSV file, rather than an Excel file with named cells in order to find the figures. So it may now be less fiddly to use. I won't really know until I do my next VAT return - today I did the easiest (but biggest) client; just smaller, messier ones left now. :(

johnhemming · Senior Member

The thing about MTD is that at a basic level it is all the same. For VAT the nine boxes need to be sent to HMRC. However, the big differences between the different providers (of which there are over 470 now) is not so much price (there is quite a bit that is free), but the additional things that the software can do and how much time it takes to use it.

For example, if you want software which will send you emails to tell you of the VAT status then the software will have to be running when you are not doing something. For example I run this on a Sunday. If you are using Excel it is possible for the software to do this, but it needs to know all of the MTD accounts that you are using which is really fiddly. Hence those people running MTD directly from Excel will find this hard to do. Similarly cloud systems which don't require you to set up an account won't be able to do this as they won't know where to send the emails to and won't know what account any particular VAT legal entity is associated with.

When it comes to Self Assessment which may now make a bit of progress as no deal planning has stopped for a bit, it has quite a bit more to do. This, again, can be done in Excel, but it starts becoming really difficult to write software to manage the process. That's why I went for an account based system on a cloud server. Having done software for decades I am much happier doing cloud support as you can see what is going wrong much easier than having to remotely log into someone's system. I can tell what is going wrong just by looking at the real time logs. That also saves time.