Recording CIS on Sage - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Pickle · Veteran Member

Recording CIS on Sage

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

CN to cis n/c

Pickle · Veteran Member

Thank you but do I also then do a bank payment for the 150 coded to same cis code?

Leger · Master Book-keeper

"did a supplier payment for 750 from bank"

Shouldn't that be a customer payment to the bank?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Pickle wrote:
Thank you but do I also then do a bank payment for the 150 coded to same cis code?

Why are you doing a bank payment?

Who is the bank payment to?

Plus John's Q (I just ignored that!)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Who is the debtor and who is the creditor? Which is your customer?

Pickle · Veteran Member

Isn't a subcontractor providing his services to a contractor a supplier? When the 150 cis payment comes out of the bank it gets coded to the cis code.

Pickle · Veteran Member

The builder is the contractor and the subcontractor is the company supplying the scaffolding

-- Edited by Pickle on Friday 10th of January 2020 11:45:57 AM

Leger · Master Book-keeper

I assumed the subby, but if it's the contractor it makes more sense.

Assuming that's the case it only requires one action as Joanne says. Credit note to the supplier account with the CIS nominal code. Puts £150 to the CIS nominal and clears the supplier account. The £150 in the CIS nominal is cleared when paid to HMRC.

Back up sage first then test it.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

We were trying to clarify whether you were dealing with the debtor or the creditor, hence my question....

Who is the debtor and who is the creditor? Which is your customer?

Your query stated your problem was with a balance on account - which account, the creditors (Im guessing)?

Did you pay £150 to someone for the CIS? Surely not at the same time and if you just code that to CIS, what balance is then on the CIS account? Given you havent put anything in their for the provision?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Forget the backup!

Pickle - just try the process in practice mode. Set up your supplier, key an invoice, key the payment , key the CN as I stated several posts ago, then key the bank payment to HMRC and see what happens

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Pickle wrote:
The builder is the contractor and the subcontractor is the company supplying the scaffolding

-- Edited by Pickle on Friday 10th of January 2020 11:45:57 AM

That still doesnt answer my question - WHICH is YOUR customer that you are processing on sage for?

YOu dont need to know - Ive assumed it was a supplier ie a CREDITOR. So have answered as required. I think. Although losing the plot now altogether.

Pickle · Veteran Member

Thank you and sorry for muddling you up so much. The client is the contractor. I have cn the supplier/subcontractor for 150 coded to cis and then done a bank payment also coded to cis once builder paid it over to HMRC. Everything is now clear. Thank you both for your help

-- Edited by Pickle on Friday 10th of January 2020 12:03:22 PM

-- Edited by Pickle on Friday 10th of January 2020 12:04:34 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Yey!

So then the supplier accounts and the CIS accounts will be nil. But CIS shows as owing until its paid - so all is well with the world.

Shall we blame John for muddling it? wink biggrin biggrin

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Youre welcome - dont be a stranger on here though!!! We have a few giggle posts even if you dont feel you can help others (which Im sure you can!)

Pickle · Veteran Member

smile haha poor John! Don't worry I will probably be back when the reverse vat charge comes in to play in October blankstare

Hope you have a good weekend both of you

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
Yey!

So then the supplier accounts and the CIS accounts will be nil. But CIS shows as owing until its paid - so all is well with the world.

Shall we blame John for muddling it?

Yes, absolutely biggrin

I'm that used to doing subbies I automatically assumed that's what it was.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I know you know that Im only joking John, of course!!!!!

Leger · Master Book-keeper

I know you well enough by now Joanne biggrin

Rachel19 · Veteran Member

Hopefully this won't confuse things, but I tend to set up a dummy CIS bank account for these things, especially when there's cash accounting for vat involved.

So in this instance you would pay the subcontractor £750 from the real bank account and £150 from the CIS bank. It works the same the other way around, if you were issuing the invoice, your customer would pay you £750 into the real bank account, then you would receive £150 from the CIS bank account. At the month end, I transfer the balance on the CIS bank to the Paye nominal so the payment to HMRC will net off the Paye nominal.

As I said, hopefully this won't confuse things!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Rachel19 wrote:
Hopefully this won't confuse things, but I tend to set up a dummy CIS bank account for these things, especially when there's cash accounting for vat involved.

So in this instance you would pay the subcontractor £750 from the real bank account and £150 from the CIS bank. It works the same the other way around, if you were issuing the invoice, your customer would pay you £750 into the real bank account, then you would receive £150 from the CIS bank account. At the month end, I transfer the balance on the CIS bank to the Paye nominal so the payment to HMRC will net off the Paye nominal.

As I said, hopefully this won't confuse things!

Hi Rachel

Horses for courses, lots of workarounds in sage, like this. I use the sort of dummy account you mention, albeit mostly Director's stuff that carries VAT (saves on the adjustments to the VAT return in these MTD days, when faffing with journals, non VAT I just journal).

The one I suggested should be keyed T9 (I missed the coding) - then will not impact on either kind of VAT, incl cash accounting. I would also enter it at the point of the original invoice because then it shows the CIS liability straight away.

Yours of course has the added reconciliation (of the dummy bank), but it does the trick and thats what its about. Anyone trying it - just do it in Practice mode, or as John states, back up (backup up again and test your backup) then you can restore if it doesnt work.

Riel · Veteran Member

Hi, When I post payments on a CIS supplier Sage automatically creates the credit note for the tax amount.

Casu · Senior Member

Riel wrote:
Hi, When I post payments on a CIS supplier Sage automatically creates the credit note for the tax amount.

What type and version of sage?

Riel · Veteran Member

Sage 50 V 26 although you do need a CIS module, then it also send the monthly return

Casu · Senior Member

Riel wrote:
Sage 50 V 26 although you do need a CIS module, then it also send the monthly return

Thought as much.

Amanda · Expert

You beat me to it Riel, we have the CIS module at one of my clients on Sage, it is brilliant and well worth the extra money! It matches everything when you pay the contractor, it automatically dumps the credit into the CIS account, and the creates a CIS return at the end of the month, and produces certs for the subbies.

I used to do it the manual way and then have a spread sheet but it took too long to do!