Sadly the forum has been going this way for quite a while now, even though asking for an intro served its purpose and was a good idea when the forum was busy as it helped us all with getting to know the new member I think this is now having a detrimental effect on the forum as many do not come back and provide the information asked, I can also imagine that it may sometimes put some people off even asking a question in the first place, also regarding business owners I know that this forum is for professional bookkeepers but I do not see a problem with helping people out if all that is needed is a simple answer, obviously if they want some technical advice regarding their business then the same answer as always would be to seek help from their accountants, I have always thought that if you are doing the bookkeeping then there is no harm in seeking advice from fellow bookkeepers, after all we all use the Internet for free advice. 

Would be interesting to hear others views though

haymac wrote:

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I have become a little disillusioned with the profession of late, perhaps been doing this for far too long and in need of a break from it all.

Certainly, lockdown has taken its toll, although I have been busy (vat returns etc., still need doing !) I have seen at first hand how Covid-19 has affected businesses and the sheer panic business owners are feeling, it is hard to switch off from their problems and issues most times. Loosing two family members to the virus has been difficult to deal with when all I have wanted to say to a few clients is `jog on` and leave me alone.

I have dipped in and out of the forum over the years, but seen a rise in the rudeness of posts / answers and cringed at the abruptness of some, so can see how this has deterred most from being active on the forum.

Think there will be an increase in start ups pretty soon and so people will stumble upon this forum for a few pointers. If I can help, I will, we all need it sometimes, whether they are business owners or not.

Julie

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So sorry to hear about your losses Julie.

I hear what you are saying and as well as business startups I am expecting a lot of new bookkeeping practices to spring up as they always do in times when many people become newly unemployed simultaneously. We saw it between 2008 and 2011. I'm expecting it again now.

Yes, on the rudeness I think that its something that needs addressing and we need to get back to being the sort of friendly welcoming site that we once were.

There will always be arguements as this isn't a profession where there is often more than one side to a debate and at times that can become heated. I don't want this to be a site where people are fearful of speaking their minds or argueing their corners. Nobody was ever banned from here for having an opinion. But the general atmosphere does need to change back to the way the site was back in 2013/14 when those who joined felt that they were becoming part of a family of like minded people.

Talk soon,

Shaun.

Bucks Bodger wrote:

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I would suggest that part of the problem is the arrival of numerous Facebook groups which are rather more user friendly
than this one.

If people are already looking at their Facebook pages, it's so much easier to just join a group and have a look at what goes
on there, whereas accessing this group seems to need a little more conscious effort. I also think those Facebook groups
are less scary. The people who respond on here are all very knowledgeable and I'm sure some people are frightened to
ask a question if they think they are going to get shouted down.

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Ah, but Facebook hasn't got me

Bucks Bodger wrote:

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And that's their loss, I'm sure, Shaun!

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Well, when Mr Zuckerberg joins our forum I might think about joining his. Just plain rude expecting people to sign up without reciprocating.... And don't even get me onto Jack Dorsey not inviting me to join his Twitter cult.

Even Boris Johnson finds the time to write to me asking me how I'm doing... Of course, he normally signs off asking me for a £25 donation the lil tike. But Zuckerberg and Dorsey. Not a peep. Damn rude I say.

You just post here bab. We care abbout our members

Shaun.

Hi all, how strange that Googling something brought me back here today! I used to post quite a bit many moons ago, and always thought it was such a nice forum especially compared to places like UKBF and Aweb. Unfortunately it became exactly the same and although I lurked around a bit from time to time in the intervening years all I saw was people getting slaughtered for asking anything, and to be fair having had a bit of a scroll through today, I'm still seeing it, although some of the names have changed. The forum is a valuable resource and it would be a shame if it was lost, so it would be great if it got back on track. I will try to make the effort to check in more regularly as well and see how it goes 

Jenny

edited for typo's

Very kind John,

I think that I can also speak for Steve when I say thankyou and it would be really apreciated,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

johnhemming wrote:

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I have updated the page as follows:
www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/questions-and-answers-about-making-tax-digital-income-tax-and-vat-tickets-114522333382

I need to get my son from Holiday Camp now. Hence if you want any changes it will take a bit of time.

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Many thanks John,

Thats perfect just the way it is.

Leger wrote:

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got my first one on Tuesday for a speed awareness course

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Tut, not been doing at speed hand brake turns into tight parking spaces again have you.

Leger wrote:

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Rachel19 wrote:

I notice Cheshire (Joanne) has been quiet recently, is she ok?

---

 I spoke to Joanne by email about 3 weeks ago.  Think she's taking a breather from forums at the moment.  There was a bit of a ruccus (sic) on Aweb when the mods got heavy handed and Joanne was caught in the crossfire. I've not seen her there or here since. I'll drop her another email just to check she's ok though.

 Got an email from Joanne yesterday, she's fine, just got lots going on at the moment (in a positive way)  I'm sure we'll be hearing from her when things are less hectic.

Interesting post. I still visit the forum from time to time but no longer get involved (till now) as I got tired of going over the same arguments re certain qualifications, where there will never be any concessions from either side. There is definitely an 'unfriendliness' within many posts and the forum certainly does not live up to the reputation as expressed in the 'about' link. The attitude toward the ICB qualifications in particular has alienated many potential users where, going back a few years, there were many ICB members who were regular contributors.

A couple of months ago there was a gent of mature years looking for some guidance and one of our students felt compelled to respond as a few years ago his starting position was almost identical. All he got for his efforts was a tirade of negativity from Shaun, even going as far as predicting his drop in clients and offering this page as his salvation when his business failed. I'm pretty sure he'll never post here again.

There are many other groups offering support every bit as technical as here, but in a far friendlier way, and that is why I would no longer direct our student base  here, as I did previously. I sincerely hope the group finds its way again, but it needs to change.

Oh, we were doing so well with sorting out the issues that the forum has had.

MrGreen2 wrote:

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Until this forum gets rid of the bullies it will never change.

The Bullies are:

Cheshire Cat
Caron
aided and abetted by Shaun.

Nobody is being got rid of

I was banned from this forum for:

I don't remember banning you? hang on a sec... Oh, I remember. You were the one who called me a racist in this thread : https://www.book-keepers.org.uk/t62744677/vt-run-time-error-when-posting-in-universal-data-input/

1) Praising ICB. Why would a bookkeepers forum belittle the largest bookkeeping body in the UK? Reason, to enjoy bullying and, belittling. Incidentally, the petty owners of this forum are jealous of how ICB has flourished? In another thread one of the bullies asked what is ICB, knowing full well what it is, and the moderator (I dont think he knows the meaning of the word moderator), joined in to belittle ICB. No ICB bookkeeper would come to this forum to be abused and belittled, for their hard earned qualification.

Now that wasn't why you were banned. was it.

2) Cloud computing - Need I say anymore! The moderator is still in 18th Century touting Excel - laughable. Guess what even the Cheshire Cat is using Indian developed Tax Filer in the cloud, when not long ago, she would have spouted out some bile about safe harbour. Hypocrisy is laughable.

And that isn't why you were banned although the fact that Excel has now become Power BI the worlds foremost business information tool should be making you eat your words.

3) Calling out the bullies on here.

And even that wasn't why you were banned.

The moderator aided by his bullies chose to ban me.

The moderator doesn't actually need any help or support from anyone in making decisions.

You were actually banned for being an obnoxious halfwit were'n't you

Didn't even ban you straight away but you persisted in keep digging that hole until you gave me no choice.

The forum will be dead, until you get rid of the bullies, all three of them. No ICB member should ever come here, because you will be bullied and belittled, and the "moderator" will join in, because in their eyes, only AAT can teach you bookkeeping. I know of so many AAT qualified bookkeepers, that an ICB member would run rings around.

Yep, many of them trained by the ACCA who couldn't get an ACCA practice certificate. The IAB, IFA and AAT also have loads.

In fact, the moderator will steer you away from running your own bookkeeping business and send you on wild goose chase to get AAT and go in to employment and on to ACCA! Really in a bookkeeping forum. It's a joke. The moderator is not a Bookkeeper, and has no clue about running a bookkeeping business, and his preferred tool is excel for any accounting process, when the real bookkeeping world has moved on.

Bookkeeper of the year 2012. Ran my own bookkeeping practice and now with ACCA credentials I service the management information needs of some of the words largest companies. I've got nothing against bookkeepers, only against people newly unemployed being taken for a ride.

Funny, the Cheshire Cat got some of her own medicine on AWEB, and was told to f off. Rightly so, no Shaun to hold your hand and hide behind there.

Oh Joanne doesn't need any hand holding... A leash, maybe... but not hand holding.

Also noticeable, there are no comments on this thread from the two of the biggest culprits, Cheshire Cat and Caron! Reason, they have been caught out, and are in hiding.

No they're not, they're busy saving companies in very worrying times.

There are some nice people here namely, John and Artois, but I ask you why do you associate yourself with bullies?

Cos they love me

This will be my only post on here, because I suspect I will be banned again by the bullies, for saying what everyone is thinking.

Think that your clairvoyant skills need improving. Not saying that you won't be banned again on the basis of your first ban rather than this diatribe. But just that I don't think that you actually speak for everyone else.

The reason I came back and posted this is we must stand up to bullies, if we dont who does?

The moderator

If you have an ounce of humanity in you, you would leave this forum until the bullies are kicked out.

Have you read why you got banned?

Shaun, I challenge you to do something about the bullying and belittling on the form. I challenge you to be a moderator, in the truest sense of the word. But, I suspect from past form, you can't straighten a dogs tail!

I don't think that there is evidence of Bullying. Frustration, yes, annoyance at freeloaders, yes, questioning the legitimacy of peoples statements in a manner that might be considered a little too enthusiastic, yes. But bullying. Not really seeing it.

Over and out.

Not yet but you're certainly working on it.

---

MrGreen2 wrote:

---

Glad you brought up racisim.

I DARE you to put up the image you used for your profile/post when I called you out as a racist.

Sterotyping a Black Man with a Gun to make a stupid/idiotic comment.

Show everyone, what the shaun truly believes in. A closet racist is stlll a racist.

Let everyone judge if it is appropriate or not, especially in the current debate of BLM. Once again I DARE you to show everyone the image you used.

To the OP - sadly as you can see there will be no change. No one taken to task, and really why should there be, the moderator is one of the culprits and actually gets a kick out of it.

To the owners of the site - Having a moderator that is closet racist, bully and belittler - shame on you! I suggest you grow a pair and do something about it.

Again, to everyone (and especailly to all ICB members), if you have an ounce of humanity you will leave this site for good, or at least until the 3 vile culprits are out.

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 Oh grow up. Don't you have some statues you want to go pull down.

using an image of a character from Pulp Fiction is no more racist that me using an image of a Jewish guy in my current avatar or some having had an Irish guy in theirs.

You are just trying to make a mountain out of a molehill... Actually, I don't even think that the picture used warranted so much as a molehill.

Anyone who reads the link imagine my avatar as Jules from Pulp fiction.

Now stop trying to take this thread off track.

.... By order of the peaky blinders

haymac wrote:

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FFS STOP - men behaving badly, just like the bloody playground !

This sort of `banter` is making a mockery of the whole forum - GET BACK TO BASICS for goodness sake, helping each other through the trials and tribulations of running practices.

Not impressed with the way this is going, STOP IT.

Julie

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What have I said?

Go up and reread that unprovoked, unneccessary, personal attack and then go read the thread to which it relates.

MrGreen2 wrote:

---

Until this forum gets rid of the bullies it will never change.

The Bullies are:

Cheshire Cat
Caron
aided and abetted by Shaun.

Mr Green!  Welcome back.  I think bullies is too strong a word, but there was a tendency to jump on newbies. I called Caron out on a couple of occasions, one justified (imo), one where the attack was against someone I hadn't realised was a freeloader (even so, I think we can still be polite)

I think in Joanne's case  (and possibly Caron's too) we can misinterpret the tone.  Joanne in particular has helped many people on here over the years and deserves credit for that.  I've met her in real life and she is a lovely person, definitely not a bully.  I suspect I've met you as well, and if you are who I think you are, you're a lovely person too. if I'm right then I suspect this isn't about memes but about a previous upset.

I was banned from this forum for:

1) Praising ICB.   No

2) Cloud computing  No

3) Calling out the bullies on here. No

4. Calling Shaun a racist over a profile pic, and totally missing the point of the meme. If you knew Shaun's personal history, you would not be calling him a racist.

Also noticeable, there are no comments on this thread from the two of the biggest culprits, Cheshire Cat and Caron! Reason, they have been caught out, and are in hiding.

I can't speak for Caron, has she hasn't posted since I last called her out, which is a pity, because all it needs is just to adopt a more friendly tone.  Joanne is mega busy and taking a breather from all forums, but has told me she will be back at some point.

There are some nice people here namely, John and Artois, but I ask you why do you associate yourself with bullies? See below, but there are lots of nice people on here, not just me and Doug (Artois) 

If you have an ounce of humanity in you, you would leave this forum until the bullies are kicked out. That's a bit silly don't you think, and counter productive.  If we all pee off the forum will die.  It's me who started the thread, and Shaun added his support to it, hardly the actions of a man aiding and abetting the "bullies"

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 I suggest you bury the hachet, draw a line in the sand and come and join in.  Have a discussion about AAT,  ICB and IAB. Have a discussion about cloud computing.  WE don't have to agree with each other, but we can keep it friendly surely?

Your input is always valued Amanda, great to see you here, glad you were able to get away.

Doubt very much I'll be able to get away this year as I've just taken on new premises, so I'm busy getting that up and running.