ICB Level 2 Computerised past paper - free - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

ICB Level 2 Computerised past paper - free

kjmcculloch · Guru

Julie, If you haven't already given this away I would love it. I can send you the postage via paypal so that you're not out of pocket.

Kris

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

Hi Kris,

Thanks for offer of postage but I can "borrow" the franking machine at work. If you can email me your address I will post it tomorrow. My email address is juliedawn_4@hotmail.com
Have you got Sage software to run the CD on?
Julie

gazal · Veteran Member

How wrong is this?
Very nice to offer something for free that would normally have to be purchased from ICB but the employer is paying for the postage? No need to worry, all businesses have got loads of money to spare. Hope your boss doesnt see this Julie.

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

I dont think that is a fair comment, I work very hard for my company which includes extra hours where necessary. You will find the majority of office workers "borrow" the odd pen, paper or stamps from time to time and I know 72p will not make any difference. I am not saying its acceptable but I dont think what I do at work is anyone elses business.

kjmcculloch · Guru

I suppose it really depends on your employers attitude. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there who would be willing to let an employee slip an odd personal letter through. But I do really think any arrangements like that are between Julie and her employer. I find the comment unnecessary. This forum isn't busy, but please lets not start making uncalled for comments just for the sake of it.

gazal · Veteran Member

It is theft Unless the employer agrees to it. What would be your view if your employees were taking things without consent.
As this is a bookkeeping forum perhaps people should know what is tax ductable and what is not. A company can claim for expenses connected with the running of the business and not for items taken by employees for personal use. Argue as much as you like about this.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Ok, lets talk about theft. The definition is:

Theft is the taking and appropriating of property without the consent of it's rightful owner or other lawful authority.

so the essentials are:

Dishonest intent to deprive the owner
Appropriation to the thief's use

We can prove the second in this case. But lets look at the first. If Julies boss knew that she was sending a personal letter, or if Julie believed that s/he had given permission then it is not theft as where property is taken under a claim of right made in good faith or under reasonable belief that the owner has granted permission - it is not theft.

In theses circumstances I believe that a theft cannot be proven.

On your second point, as long as the owner does not claim this as a tax deductible item then no crime has been committed there. And we have no proof that this is not the case.

gazal · Veteran Member

How does the owner know what has been taken and in what quantity?

Lets say he/she estimates it. Tax would then be payable on this amount.

I find it difficult as a business owner to accept that an employee would consider it acceptable to take my property without my consent and I find your attitude towards it disturbing. No wonder this country is in a mess.

Theft can be proven because the evidence is in writing. If there is something in an employees contract stating that they can take what they want when they want then this would not be seen as theft but more like financial suicide.

We all know that some jobs have perks but as a business owner for over 35 years and having endured a few HMRC enquiries into expenses that there is no such thing as a tax free perk. Someone has to pay.

I suppose employees would screem like a pig if the employer asked them to pay tax on what they had taken.

Quite ironic that a member of my staff offered to pay for some stamps this morning.

kjmcculloch · Guru

Let me again take your reply section by section.

How does the owner know what has been taken?

Perhaps they can keep a note... All I'm saying is that if I, as a business owner, decide to give my employees a few stamps, or let them send a letter or two who's to stop me?

secondly, I think I have outlined the essentials to prove theft and this fails to meet them unless the owner is a complainer.

You are speculating at what may or may not be contained within the contract of employment. you are also speculating at the relationships and arrangements between Julie and her employer. Perhaps s/he is simply more generous than some.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that it was a tax free payment.

your employee that offered to pay for stamps? were these stamps that she used for personal reasons?

gazal · Veteran Member

Why else would an employee offer to pay for stamps?

I do not think the boss of a company has got time to log what an employee confesses to have taken from the company.

I am quite sure that neither of you would be aware of the tax implications for the employer.

Of course it is at the business owners discretion if they decide to let people have perks but this is not the case here is it? No need for speculation or even to discuss this any further.

Julies statement:

"I work very hard for my company which includes extra hours where necessary. You will find the majority of office workers "borrow" the odd pen, paper or stamps from time to time and I know 72p will not make any difference. I am not saying its acceptable but I dont think what I do at work is anyone elses business"

This is an admission and I am quite sure that if her employer was aware then it would have been mentioned in her own defence.
If 72p were deducted from her pay she would have thought this to be a lot of money. Its theft and you are defending it.

Any chance of me popping round your house and "borrowing" a few things later.

Enjoy your freebie.

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

I would actually prefer it if this was not discussed anymore. It is now making me think twice about posting anything on this site now.

gazal · Veteran Member

No problem
You should always be carefull what you say on forums. Forums are not private discussions and are very popular on the internet (Google loves listing them) and whatever you write can be seen by anyone wishing to click on the message or subject.

Julie Dawn · Senior Member

I do actually understand the concept of forums, but I would prefer not to be discussed by others.