Probably a stupid question but I can't find any difinitive answer by googling. Are these courses allowable against my income tax bill? I'm thinking they (Manual 1,2 & 3) aren't but am not so sure about the computer course. This is being done to increase my profit hopefully.
That's me enrolled in the courses - it will be strange like being back at school over a quarter of a century since I was last there.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
Its wrong I know especially as if you were long term unemployed you could probably have the whole amount paid for you. (As I found much to my disgust when I did the Open University certificate in accountancy at a cost of £1850 to me but free to several of the others in my group).
The revenue's argument relates to expenditure that is incurred wholly and necessarily in the course of performing our work. They state that courses related to learning something new, rather than enhancing existing skills that we already use in our work are not a necessary expense as there is no immediate necessity for us to study the course.
For this reason, where the courses to learn bookkeeping come out of your own pocket, once the business is established then CPD courses are a necessary expense of your company (as without taking them we lose the right to trade) so they are allowable providing they are CPD courses related directly to the area that you are working in (a bookkeeper may find it difficult to convince the revenue that a CPD course related to forensic audit was a necessary expense!).
I know that it's not the answer you want but hope that it helps anyway,
cheers,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
When I contacted the tax office I got told completely different to this, I was asking about driving lessons at the same time as asking about the ICB courses and was told I was not allowed to do the driving lessons through the books (though the only reason I was learning drive was because I was told by an accountant that they had many clients in hard to get to places that were desperate for a bookkeeper) but the tax office said that driving lessons could be for personal use as well so not allowable, when I asked about the ICB courses they said I could have through the books because there is no personal ellement to bookkeeping courses and is an allowable business expense.
I have worked at firms where staff's training costs were allowed to be paid through the firms books.
I have worked at firms where staff's training costs were allowed to be paid through the firms books.
Alison
Interesting. I think I have until January 31st 2012 to find out the definitive answer - well, maybe just before then, I don't want to leave things too late. Personally, I think that staff will be treated differently than if the business owner was taking the same course.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
From an IT perspective I know that if you are a mainframe developer and take course in for example mainframe database development then that is allowable but if you want to take a course in Java it's not allowable as that is another area of computing. At the end of the day it's still computing and the person would still end up using the newfound skills for profit. However, the fact that it's outside the current area of expertise it's just as disallowed as if the developer was taking a course in fork lift truck driving.
I'm transposing the same rules to bookkeeping. If you are learning something new then it's not allowable but if your enhancing income producing skills that you are already earning income from then it is allowable.
Another one that came up a few years back was a guy that tried to claim suits as an expense as he was required to wear them for work and would not wear them outside work. The revenue's ruling on that one was that the intention was immaterial and the fact was that he could wear them for personal use so they were disallowed.
Could just be one of those area's where you ask two different people at the revenue and you get two different answers.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Just to add my opinion on this subject from what I have learnt on this, if bookkeeping is your career and you are training to keep up to date and develop your knowledge then it is allowable but if you are changing career ie you are a plumber who works as a plumber but learns bookkeeping to become a bookkeeper then this would not be allowable.
Just to add my opinion on this subject from what I have learnt on this, if bookkeeping is your career and you are training to keep up to date and develop your knowledge then it is allowable but if you are changing career ie you are a plumber who works as a plumber but learns bookkeeping to become a bookkeeper then this would not be allowable.
Hope this helps
Regards
Mark
That is my understanding enhancing your skills ie learning more about bookkeeping, is allowable, learning something unrelated is not.
but surely if you do change career and set up on your own, the costs of learing could be viewed as set up cost for the business??
as to ICB, I would claim them, as I would need a practising cert to do my job and the only way of getting it is by membership etc etc, thats my argument anyway.
Im a member of the IAB and cannot claim any of my training/exams fees Ive taken over the last year but, I can claim my MLR registration fees and my membership fees also & I agree that due to the CPD I can claim further development. I believe it will be mandatory to complete an exam now for manual bookkeeping/payroll as well, whilst I wont have to study this I can claim back my exam fees just to prove I can do it.
On a similar vein, I would like to add a query to this.
While I was completing my SA I checked that I could claim my ICB membership (MICB CB Dip PM Dip). Having been a member of a professional body in a different discipline, I thought I could offset the membership fees against tax. When I checked on HMRC website they list all the professional bodies that they allow deductions for. These include some very obscure trade bodies and some foreign ones, they also list the IAB as a professional body but nowhere could I find the ICB.
Has any one else looked into this? What was the outcome?
go to the PDF version on the revenue website and it's on page 26.
here's the link http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/list3/list3.pdf
the entry is Certified Bookkeepers, Inst of
cheers,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I tried every combination when I looked but could not find them.
I notice they asterix 2008-2009 after the title. I wonder if it is a new addition? I checked the properties of the document and it was modified 19/10/2009. I did my SA before that date.
As you know things are a changing at the ICB so as you say it may well be that the revenue have only just upgraded their status.
I would have though that they would have been recognised as a professional body at the very least when they became a regulated body for money laundering. But, it's a sad fact that things don't always tie up between documents and departments when they should.
Anyway, all sorted now and even if it hadn't appeared on the list the fact that you need membership to support you're practicing certificate means that it was expenditure incurred wholly and exclusively in maintaining your work therefore membership must be allowable once you are in practice.
Talk soon,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I read the PDF doc more thoroughly, the list was updated in September 2009 and the asterix date is the first date of approval to be allowed as a deductible expense (so ICB membership wasn't allowed in tax years prior to 2008-2009). Bit of a relief in someways, at least I wasn't having a senior moment when I looked.
Pity I did my return early because I didn't claim it but I will next year.
