Choosing the right course - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

SadieH · Member

Choosing the right course

Nikki P · Member

If you want to work for a company in an accounts assistant or admin role you don't need a qualification.
I've worked in accounts for over 10 years, in various roles, with no qualifications.

I'm about to start studying because I want to become self-employed - is that what you're planning to do and if so, what kind of job are you after?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sadie,

First the negative things.

for starters, don't believe a word that you're being told about there being load of work in this area. The training providers have an incentive to lie!

It's very difficult to get assistant roles mainly due to the fact that few of us ever make it past the recruiters desk.

The problems is that so many hopefuls are being churned out each year by the training providers that for each job advertised the recruiters are deluged with applications.

Bookkeeping and accountancy is not for everyone. Its something that you either love or detest. If you love it then things will start to fit into place.

Double entry is sometimes difficult to grasp but it's really important that you get your head around it so that you can do it almost without thinking about it.

There's going to be a lot of expenditure involved in this. In courses alone you'll be looking in the region of at least £1500 (Premier Training) plus AAT membership (£105), plus the skills tests and exams. All in you're probably looking at £2000+.

There is no option with the AAT to self teach. You have to have a training provider.

Do not make the mistake of using the Home learning college. They're Way too expensive and I'm yet to hear a good report about them on this site.

And now for the positive bit.

very glad to see AAT as you're chosen path.

Strikes me that you've done your homework and seen that this is the only one of the qualifications that will get you to interview.

It's a more difficult route than ICB / IAB but ultimately a much, much better route that will open doors when you get that lucky break.

You've also joined the right forum as we're a pretty friendly bunch on here.

And the advice bit.

What career are you changing from?

It helps if there is something in your former career that you can use in a CV that is of interest to potential employers... No matter what the industry there will be something in your CV that can be emphasised to gain the recruiters and potential employers attention.

The AAT route will take around three years to get through all of the base exams if you study it dilligently.

In addition to core AAT you could also do with learning Sage Line 50 and Payroll.

I'm sure that I'll think about this and realise that I've missed large chunks. If I think of anything else I'll add it later.

just remains to wish you good luck and I'm sure that we'll talk lots over the coming months.

kind regards,

Shaun.

SadieH · Member

Thanks for your replies guys..

Nikki, the reason im looking into getting a qualification is because the jobs that are advertised, always ask for quals or experiance in that role. Its just to open the door really. Im not really thinking of becoming self employed.

It would be nice to be able to do my partners books, because hes useless and always behind. biggrin

Shaun, Thank you ever so much for going into detail, its helped alot. I have read in one of your previous posts about the 'Mastering Accounting Skills' book, so will be getting that to test the water before i jump into any courses.

I spoke with a rep from Home Learning last year when i first became interested and she was so pushy, i ended up ignoring her calls in the end hmm

Whats your opionion on courses that local colleges have to offer in this area?

I was actually a Trainee Estimator for a construction company, i did my AVCE in Construction and the Built Environment and also have my HNC, i was almost a year into my degree in construction management when i fell pregnant. I did think about going back into it, but i was unhappy in the job tbh so..

Its funny actually how i got into that job and am now looking into this, but didnt do great in Maths at School.. D grade, although i was in set 2/6. I will admit that it does take me a while for things to gel, but once ive got it, ive got it.

I have looked into Sage & Payroll courses to, because alot of employers ask for experiance in this, i know the local college does a 15 week course, but then i was worried that i wouldnt fully understand the job without the background, what do you think?

As you can tell, im a little lost with it all really.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

SadieH · Member

These are the kind of jobs that have been propping up.

http://jobseekers.direct.gov.uk/detailjob.aspx?sessionid=1a2ca282-bf74-4cdc-8998-1aadf207ffd8&pid=1&j=STS/47715

http://www.career-prospects.co.uk/index.php?option=gen&content_id=46&job_id=6422

Even though i know i could do these if shown the ropes and do as Nikki has done, it looks like they wont let you through the door without some knowledge.

Sorry if im stating the obv with posting the jobs haha.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sadie,

thanks for all the info. Sounds from the second link as though your in my part of the world. Doesn't make it easy as there are a lot of bookkeepers around here so there's not going to be any rarity value to your services.

If I were to give career advice in your instance it would be to follow the following route :

1) Take the ABC AAT bookkeeping course. (This one is the route that Nikki is looking to take).
The course can be done for £175 direct from BPP but you would be doing it on your own.
The same course is available from the Open University for £295 but you would be doing it with others in the same position as yourself. Its done via distance learning but your part of a group email and it's like being part of a small friendly community... Rather like this site!

2) Sage is a useful tool to have under your belt. Keep an eye on the sage workbooks on Amazon as occasionally they come up incredibly cheaply. Each of the Sage workbooks comes with a 180 day trial version of sage 50 and sage certification. I just got the level 3 for £24.95 so use that as a yardstick for pricing purposes.... And its a darn side better than the hundreds paid to training companies for the same course!

3) Buy the BPP book foundation bookkeeping with Sage and spreadsheets with Excel and work through it (you can use the trial version of sage that you will still have on your machine). Try to get the latest version of the book as I've tried to use the files from V11 which came with the 2004 version of the book and they don't work wit the Sage 50 that came with the certification course (V14).

4) Do the books of 'im inddors in both Sage and by using the manual method to ensure that you are completely ok with both.

5) On your CV you will be able to include ABC ATT bookkeeping, SAGE certification (at least to level II), and experience of bookkeeping using Sage from doing the books.
From your past experience employers are going to be interested in area's of responsibility that are non industry specific such as man management skills, tasks for which you had specific responsibility, tasks where you went above and beyond what would normally be expected of staff. Telling them that you weren't very good with figures at school probably wouldn't win any brownie points. If you've got a bookkeeping qualification that says that you are good with them now so nothing before matters.

6) Join the AAT as a student and put this on your CV (That you're studying AAT, not that you're a member).

6) Look at entry level temp jobs to gain experience. These will be advertised as sales ledger clerk, purchase ledger clerk, etc.
A lot of people with ICB qualifications will apply for these. The mention of AAT on your CV even as a student will get you noticed amongst all of these.
At interview emphasise that our looking at temporary positions to gain experience whilst studying your AAT.
The mention of AAT will hopefully get you something and the experience that follows will do the rest.

7) assume that you will need to be studying AAT properly and have around two years experience before you can start looking at accounts assistant type roles. It will also help if your experience covers Purchase ledger, Sales ledger and perhaps a bit of credit control.

8) don't think about Payroll until you have the bookkeeping firmly under your belt. It's a nice to have but you could end up spreading yourself too thinly with all of the other study that you will need to do.
Also, the rules related to Payroll, Tax and accounting regulations change regularly whereas bookkeeping is pretty much a constant so at the moment it's the foundations that you need and you can build on them later when you've got some money coming in.

good luck,

Shaun.

SadieH · Member

Shaun you are an absolute diamond.

Would you still recommend that i buy the 'Mastering Accounting Skills' book before i do anything else to see whats what? I just dont want to jump into anything before im sure.

That all seems pretty straight forward, well the getting into it anyway, the studying will be a different story. biggrin

I cant seem to find the course on the open universitys site.

To start with i would only be studying, i wont work along side, because my little one is only 2, so still needs alot of my attention. smile

It will be nice to start challenging my brain again though, thats if it hasnt turned into total mommy brain mush. biggrin

My partners mom works as a bookkeeper for a local transport company, dealing with most aspects, so maybe worth asking if shed give me some unpaid work experiance there. Theyre only a small company, employing around 10 drivers. They used to use sage, but the accountant they use changed to a programme he created himself, from what i can remember her telling me, which she doesnt like one bit.

Whats involved in becoming a member of the AAT? I have looked, but its totally gone over my head. What are the benefits? Do you have to take regular exams/tests?

I did think that concentrating soley on the payroll side may limit the jobs that i could apply for, i totally see your point there.

Shaun thank you ever so much for all the info youve given me, really appreciate it.

-- Edited by SadieH on Sunday 14th of February 2010 04:34:30 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi again Sadie,

no probs on the info. Glad to help and besides that, for every person that I advise I reckon that there's another twenty reading these threads. Just hope that I'm saving people money on some ridiculously overpriced courses that are being pushed by some of the training providers.

For the OU course try this link.

http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/b190.htm

Registration for the May intake doesn't end until the end of April but if you want to take that route from past experience I would try to get your application in a month early to avoid disappointment.

For your first book on bookkeeping you want one that's a page turner and whilst Mastering Accounting Skills is excellent you might at times find it a little dry.
Another excellent book that's far better at keeping the readers interest is Business Accounting for book-keeping and financial accounting courses by David Cox. He's one of the writers of the Osbourne books for AAT and this one is written in a particularly user friendly style.
On Amazon there are five reviews and each gives it five stars. I've used the 3rd edition as a reference for years and it still serves me well.

You can find a copy here :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Business-Accounts-Accounting-Finance-David/dp/1872962637/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266166109&sr=8-1

On the AAT front, yes, there are loads of skills tests and exams but you take them when you're ready, not when they dictate. I stand to be corrected but unlike the ACCA I don't believe that the AAT have time limits. Then again, when you start taking exams you'll get hooked and start looking forwards to the next exam. I've almost finished ACCA and I find myself worried that I won't have exam sittings to look forwards to! How sad is that!!!

Good news about the potential for work experience. If you can land that it will make all the difference even though the software package used is probably of no use at all outside of that company.

Anyway, think that I've answered everything from the last message.

Hope to talk soon,

Shaun.

Pegs · Member

Hi Sadie,

I have almost finished AAT and have found it brilliant. I did the first two years (which can be done in 1 year at a push) through Kaplan distance learning and it worked out a cheaper route. I am doing the final year at the local college for the extra motivation.

Either way I definately recomend the AAT and Kaplan!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Pegs

semsley · Guru

Hi Sadie

Re doing a Sage course at a local college, I would advise not to do this until you have an understanding of basic double entry bookkeeping otherwise you will not understand the underlying principles. I used to teach at a local college and I was also an examiner for an awarding body and it was obvious from the papers we got to examine that some college tutors of Sage were IT tutors rather than book-keepers and therefore their students didn't do as well as those who were taught by tutors with a knowledge of book-keeping.

Sheila

ProBowlUK · Senior Member

SadieH wrote:
Shaun, Thank you ever so much for going into detail, its helped alot. I have read in one of your previous posts about the 'Mastering Accounting Skills' book, so will be getting that to test the water before i jump into any courses.

I spoke with a rep from Home Learning last year when i first became interested and she was so pushy, i ended up ignoring her calls in the end

Whats your opionion on courses that local colleges have to offer in this area?

Open University have a Bookkeeping course and apparently it is more flexible with your time/ability than most of their courses.
http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/b190.htm

Do they say what AAT Level you will be at the end of the 15 week local college course ? There are also some online tutorials to get you started ... eg: http://www.dwmbeancounter.com/tutorial/Tutorial.html which could give you the same amount of knowledge at your own pace, and no fees to pay.
Then you will have a "taste" to see if you would enjoy the work.

Myself, I'm only going the way of ICB as the DWP (JobCentre) would be paying (if they ever sort out my application for course funding), and being 59 I do not really have those 3 years of study and 1 year's post-grad experience.

From doing these tutorials and some good textbooks I've got to Trial Balances, P&L, and Balance Sheets after a month, and just need some old papers to for practice and speed ("productivity" as they say).
After that, I'll have a go at "shoeboxes" (Incomplete Records) whilst waiting for
the JobCentrePlus "Rapid Response" furious unit to get back to me.

cheers biggrin

-- Edited by ProBowlUK on Monday 15th of February 2010 09:59:03 PM

-- Edited by ProBowlUK on Monday 15th of February 2010 10:00:14 PM

SadieH · Member

Shamus wrote:

3) Buy the BPP book foundation bookkeeping with Sage and spreadsheets with Excel and work through it (you can use the trial version of sage that you will still have on your machine). Try to get the latest version of the book as I've tried to use the files from V11 which came with the 2004 version of the book and they don't work wit the Sage 50 that came with the certification course (V14).

Hey Shamus..

After chatting with my mil at the weekend, she has said she has Sage 2008 (Accounts and Payroll) at work, and will give me them to upload onto my computer. Would these be ok to use with the latest version of the book?

Im just waiting on my other half (for costs) and then ill be ordering my ABC from BPP, i know that premier training also do this course dont they, are they worth looking into before making my final choice? Im quite happy with BPP after speaking with them, but i just want to be 100%.

Sorry for picking your brains again

ProBowlUK · Senior Member

Hi

Have been let down by the JobCentre regarding funding for ICB training courses.

Had to enroll in the OU B190 course starting next week.
This is supposed to be equivalent to IAB Level 3.
Does this mean I could get a Practising Certificate ?

Does IAB have further qualifications for Payroll, SAGE, and Self Assessments ?
Any recommended training providers for these ?

cheers

Just a reminder - I'm 59, and not really the time to go for any Accountancy qualifications,
or even "2 years experience" route.

-- Edited by ProBowlUK on Friday 30th of April 2010 12:14:26 PM

-- Edited by ProBowlUK on Friday 30th of April 2010 12:15:11 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Bob,

Just always remember that you're never too old to be sued!

There are shortcuts to a practicing certificate but the main thing is to ensure that you are comfortable and confident in your knowledge as a bookkeeper. If you are then take all the short cuts but if you're not then I would still take the longer road and spend a couple of years doing AAT.

Remember that when you own the business you can keep working forever so I'm sure you've got a good twenty years left in you yet.

Good luck,

Shaun.

Rhianrach · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Hi Bob,

Just always remember that you're never too old to be sued!

There are shortcuts to a practicing certificate but the main thing is to ensure that you are comfortable and confident in your knowledge as a bookkeeper. If you are then take all the short cuts but if you're not then I would still take the longer road and spend a couple of years doing AAT.

Remember that when you own the business you can keep working forever so I'm sure you've got a good twenty years left in you yet.

Good luck,

Shaun.

If ever I saw an answer that would mean anything it would be this one.

You're completely right Shaun, underqualification (sounds like a chilli peppers song) is the road to problems, get the best one possible regardless, I have the time before death pokes his bony finger at me, but also as a christian (notice the lack of capitals there) I understand that if you've been a good boy then you will have lots of years left to study and therefore repent. evileye

Ashley · Newbie

Hi all

I have many years experience in book-keeping and I am looking for the fastest route to a practicing certificate. I was interested in a previous post that said there were shortcuts. Do you suggest IAB route?
Thanks
Ashley