I am not a member of the bookkeepers club yet, but I have been contemplating it.  My concern is the cost and whether it will be cost effective for me.  I have 2 clients whom use Sage Instants at their premises and 1 client with which I use VT Transaction + at home.

I will also be interested to hear about any comments about the bookkeepers club.

Harps.

Marky65 wrote:

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It may be beneficial to use in your own marketing to say that you are a member of the Sage Bookkeepers Club

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Other than the costs - what qualifications do you need to join?

 

Hi All,
I bought the sage bookkeepers club along with the payroll just over a year ago.There were no real benefits to it other than the copy of sage was cheaper,the price included a licence for 5 companies and if you needed to add more on you paid extra each month.I only went with sage as it is what i trained on and knew nothing else but i have not renewed it this year as it is too expensive at the moment and i am going to look for an alternative programme to use as well as sage.
Also it may be worth noting that if you purchase the payroll option with the bookkeepers club you have to renew the subscription in order to receive the payroll updates and year end discs etc.

stephen

I am a member of the sage Book-keepers Club and I also think the main benefit is the price.

I paid in the region of £450 for 5 Companies. Client Manager. I am coming up for renewal very soon, I am sure I will renew as I have used the support a few times, which has been good. You also get sage software updates, so you are always using the most up to date version.

I purchased an extra 5 companies for £55 plus VAT.

Also the club logo is a benefit.

Hope this helps

Hi Keith

The Sage Bookkeeping Club doesn't offer any benefits for MLR or PII, it only offers membership to its club and fully updated software.

For MLR you can either obtain this directly from HMRC or with a practice licence under ICB (don't know about IAB).

Regards

Mark

This sort of thread always worries me.

Just to emphasise the legal situation.

If you don't have MLR cover it's illegal to trade as a bookkeeper or accountant. The penalties are an unlimited fine and / or imprisonment not exceeding 14 years.... We must be a pretty evil lot cos you don't get that for murder!

Failure to keep proper records carries a jail term not exceeding two years.

Membership of the AAT or CAT also covers you for MLR as does membership of any of the higher bodies (ACCA / CIMA / ICAEW /etc. etc.).

Of course you could still pay the £170 to HMRC directly to be covered for MLR. (£120 for the property that you are working from plus £50 for each person in your business).

PII cover is actually available to any bookkeeper who can show that they have never been bankrupt and have at least two years practical experience without being sued for incompetence.

Cheaper PII is available through Trafalgar for ICB, IAB and AAT.

talk in a bit,

Shaun.

Hi Mark,

Those are exactly my reasons. (and similarly not having a go at you Keith).

I rushed to the defence of the people on this site last week when a newbie questioned how many on here do not have MLR cover but since then I'm beginning to see where he was coming from.

People new to this really have to appreciate that there are costs involved in this business. For example :

Training including CPD.
Insurances
Software Licences
Practicing certificates
Professional body memberships
Books and manuals

Whilst this is not an expensive business to start compared to many others it is my firm belief that it is not possible to start properly (and legally) on a shoe string.

Maybe if some of the training providers didn't fleece the newbies people would have more money for the things that they really do need!

Shaun.

Just looking back at Keiths intro, I don't think he's actually practising at the moment. I get the impression he is putting the feelers out to get covered for MLR. Probably trying to find the most cost effective route.

Correct me if I'm wrong Keith

But I feel the same way as you guys and wonder how many out there, maybe moonlight from a full time job as a one off, for a bit of extra money (especially in the current climate). Then again, if they are, they are probably not declaring the additional earnings either - so it wont make any difference to them, unless they get caught!!


Bill

Hi All,
I agree with the very good point that Bill has made about a lot of people not being registered for mlr.Almost all of the people i have approached have said that they either do the accounts themselves or they are done by a relative or friend.
In my personal opinion there should be some sort of law passed where all accounts have to be done by someone who is covered by mlr.

stephen

I'm not practising at the moment and going to take a another year before i do.  Only become a member of Sage B/c to use the software and have a play so i can learn more.

Going to do my ICB first.

thanks for the information has been a big help :)

Hi bill

I didn't have any problem becoming a member just phoned them up asking about software they told me about accountant club and bookkeepers club. Told them I would call them back after I had chance to look at the packages. Phoned back next day and signed up for the bookkeepers club.

keith

Hi All,

Thanks for an interesting thread. I too am looking to start up in business as a bookkeeper. I can imagine a collective sigh, 'another one!' To be truthful, in my research online and elsewhere, there does seem to be alot of people freshly starting up. So much so it leads me to wondering how much business there really is to be had. What with the different pricing levels from bookkeepers to accountants, unqualified/inexperienced to qualified and experienced, cheap or even free from the bank software for owners with a DIY approach who have the time for this, it seems a tough market to enter.

I got to thinking about starting up after doing my own s/e books and accounts, and then offering to do a member of the family's books and end of year self assessment. In doing their return I obviously wanted to make sure I was doing everything correctly and researched for hours the principles and rules relevant to that return, ending up with my realising errors made in the previous year's return. After doing that I realised I enjoyed it and was asked why I don't consider it as a job. So there it began and lots of researching and books later here I am. But as I say, the more I looked into it with all that was available to the small business owner, I started to see less and less of a market for my services. This brought me to a new plan of trying to find accounts work part time for some financial security, whilst looking to build up clients outside gradually. If I can attain the part time job, then I receive funding for the AAT. I'm enrolled to start on a Sage course soon. But I am unqualified, yet feel capable enough through experience and research so far to offer a service. I plan to offer bookkeeping, financial statements and self assessment returns to sole traders and partnerships.

It took some time for me to find out what was necessary as far as starting up was concerned. I know of other people who as you say set up very blase without really knowing what was legally required i.e. MLR and PI. But I just have a few questions if I could ask them of you;

1a: Shamus, you mentioned 'insurances' above. Besides PI, what else would be needed? I plan to work from home without having clients at the premises, so I guess public liability wouldn't be needed.

1b: If I wasn't insured for public liability and a client came round to drop source docs off, then came in for a cuppa, am I then breaking the law with public liability requirements? Or is this where amending your home insurance policy covers you?

2: Some businesses would rather you do the books on their premises so that their source docs don't have to leave the premises. Not so great for best usage of our time. If you ever encounter that issue, what do you usually say to the owner to try and have them accept your doing the work off premises?

3: The point in the post above about only having qualified persons do books/accounts is an interesting one. There's enough qualified individuals around to service the industry and it would certainly up their income if all the unqualifieds weren't allowed to practice. On this point though I understand that an unqualified person can file a sole trader, partnership and Ltd company tax and VAT return and companies house accounts (Ltd. company up to a certain turnover). I understand that other than businesses not regarded as 'small', that producing and signing off audit accounts is the only accountancy work restricted to qualified persons?

4a: I'm currently awaiting for underwriters to get back to me with my PI quote. Whether they will quote someone without qualifications and only small experience is another matter, but what premium is an average would you say?

4b: How do you work out what liability level is necessary? One broker said 50000 would be enough. Do you agree?

5: If you gain a client whos books were incorrectly done prior, so that it will be tough to sort out the information for year end accounts, you'll obviously quote them a price for services from now on but would you also charge them a fee for the time it takes you to amend their incorrect books on a per hour basis? (Not the best wrote of my questions I know, if you can work with it!)

6: And onto fees and pricing! What are your thoughts on per hour, fixed fee, per item billing or mixing and matching any of them dependent on service particulars?

Sorry to itemise the questions and post so much at once, and also for effectively gatecrashing the thread. I often think with my questions why would you wish to answer them as you don't gain anything! So I thank you very much for any answers. I was researching Sage B Club particulars and saw this good thread with nice people and hoped you wouldn't mind my chatting and voicing all my queries at once!

Thanks so much for your time.

Hi Attila,

Thanks for that info. Yes i've found through looking at the ICB and AAT member sections regarding PI insurance, that their agreements with each provider means that the insurances are a really good price. I had really been struggling to get a quote with anyone. Numerous phone calls passed with me repeating my situation and plans etc to different companies, each coming back to me saying they couldn't get a quote. But then eventually from Hiscox I've managed to get a quote of £280 to cover my risk, with them aware of my having no qualifications and little experience. So I'm pleased with that, as that was the lowest of the majority of internet quotes I found where qualifications or 3-5 years experience was mandatory. I know whilst not under any bodies I don't have to have PI, but would like to if it's only costing £23 a month. That plus £120 a year for MLR and it's not too expensive a startup considering limited other fixed costs. Direct costs too will be low if I don't go for Sage Bookkeepers Club and just use a spreadsheet.

As for the turnover, yes definately, £50000 is not going to happen! I'm starting off part time so will be building up clients. Even when it gets to the stage of full time, if I'm just looking after Sole Traders and Partnerships for the full monty of books, end year and payroll, even then topping £20k may be tough. I'm looking at my pricing now and trying to work out how long certain things will take and therefore what to charge. The £50k limit I am thinking of as not linked necessarily to my projected turnover, but more to my clients who may have larger turnovers, meaning a possible mistake on my part could result in a higher claim. Do you think that's correct thinking?

I rang the AAT. I asked them what they would require if I was already s/e with clients when starting the course. Now I'm typing, I can't remember exactly what they said and looking at my notes written down from the phone call they don't divulge much now! But, from what I remember, they said that you can do what you like, it's only if I wish to use the AAT logo etc in marketing material that they make requests with regards to proving experience and regulating what you do etc. (I will need to double check to remind myself though)

Taking on jobs I'm confident is definately my focus. I won't take on anything I feel is beyond me. The benefit of working from home is that should I not remember how to do something or get stumped, I can research the answer without a client watching on thinking 'shouldn't he know this without having to look it up?'!

Thanks again for your reply Attila. I'm finding forums so useful! It's a funny thing, because before internet who would really spend time answering people's questions?

(Anyone else able to shed any more light on my issues above? Thanks all)

Shaun