HMRC Online as per usual offline what alternative software to use - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Sue T · Veteran Member

HMRC Online as per usual offline what alternative software to use

RobH · Expert

Hi Sue,

I've never needed to file CIS on-line as all my cis clients are subbies. I do know that Sage do have a module for CIS , I think you pay extra for it though. The fining regime is quite nasty for CIS contractors, they even have to put 'nil' returns in each month otherwise the fines can stack up horrendously.

Sage 2010 allows you todo VAT submissions on-line. I have my copy of it but just as I was about to load it up I read an article on Accounting Web where users have experienced lots of problems including corruption of data, slow response etc...so I may wait until the problems have been sorted and use the unstable hmrc gateway!

I use sage for all my payroll and that works really well. I have used others in the past but I like sage payroll.

For tax returns and accounts I use IRIS. It is fantastic but stupidly expensive. I need to write a cheque for £5k next week for the annual license which hurts! Having said that for people who offer final accounts and tax returns it is brilliant, but you need a decent sized client base to make it worthwhile.

Wella · Expert

Hi Sue

I've been investigating 12Pay, which a lot of others on the forum recommend. It seems quite impressive.

It is basically payroll software that you can add a CIS module extension

There is free trial soft for both but even if you opt for the premium edition it's quite reasonable at £49.90 for the software + £28.00 for the CIS extension.

I intend to have a look at the payroll software myself as I have more than one client I do payroll for now ( have been using Sage but it's only one company, 12Pay is 3 companies, even the trial version)

The following link will take you to their website

http://www.12pay.co.uk/

Bill

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Ouch!

Morning Rob,

Makes Sage seem cheap!

And I know that's not the most you might pay either as an accountant friend of mines just shelled out £9,000 to IRIS.

Have you ever tried PTP Rob? I know that it's now part of the IRIS stable and wondered how it compared? I don't know anyone who uses it but it does get mentioned quite a lot over on Accounting Web,

Then again, I suppose that 14,000 accountancy practices can't be wrong about IRIS!

Shaun.

RobH · Expert

I've not tried PTP but since it was bought out by IRIS I did wonder how similar it might be. The thing about Iris is that it is all integrated. I can whack on a TB and I get smart looking accounts churned right out. These figures get automatically carried onto the Business Tax module, where I can make some adjustments and then transfer it to the tax return. Add on a bit of dividends, interest etc and I have a tax return done. Everything is saved for the next year and it makes the whole job nice and quick (relatively). I have the basic level which gives me upto 300 clients I think. So if you have say 100 clients it means each one is costing around £40 plus per client but some of those will be being billed £500 plus each (though I would say my average for accounts/tax return closer to £250-£300)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers Rob,

I know that it's a hit that I'm going to have to take eventually but the restrictions placed on me by the ACCA at the moment in that I'm not allowed to produce anything beyond trial balance at least means that I can delay that sort of expenditure.

When I get a bit closer I'll take the PTP trial to see how the results compare to my normal accounts which my accountant produces in IRIS.

It doesn't of course answer how they compare on integration but if the results look the same then I can live with a bit of anguish for a few grand of savings.... I use Sage, I'm used to anguish!

RobH · Expert

yes a few grand is quite a few clients!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I was thinking of it more in terms of a beach condo in Thailand!

RobH · Expert

Do you think you will go back to Thailand permanently at some point Shaun? It is a beautiful country, I was there for a few months over 20 years ago. Stayed on Pi Pi for a while (far too hot), back then it was just huts on the beach from what I can remember but of course it was decimated when the tsunami hit. So many terrible natural tragedies happening lately.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Definitely. Although not before my boys finished university. (He only starts secondary school this year!).

Sounds as though you were doing your gap year there? The place quite inexplicably gets under your skin doesn't it?

I'm not really a beach person myself. My Thailand is the North East around Khon Kaen. I lived in the little village of Kut Nam Sai which is about 30km North of civilisation so it was total cultural immersion type Thailand.

I've already thought of buying somewhere close to the beach and hiring it out until I retire when I would sell it and move to where I would live which is far, far off the tourist trail.

Doing it that way it pays for itself from rental income and I hedge my investment against currency fluctuations and inflation. (banker!).

Then again, you know what they say about the best laid plans of mice and men! my problem is that women keep coming along with alternate plans for my life.

RobH · Expert

Could be worse Shaun, these women may want to change your plans but better with than without.

It was somewhat after my gap year (which I did on a Kibbutz), but I was in my early 20's, I'd actually got a one way ticket to Taiwan and was teaching English as a foreign language and just visited a few places on the way back (Hong Kong, South Korea, Phillipines (I loved The Phillipines, ended up in Cebu) and of course Thailand). It was a case of getting out of Bangkok relatively quickly. Went up North to Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai during the annual water festival which was brilliant. Oh those were the days when I could call myself a traveller rather than a tourist!

I have a real hankering to explore New Zealand, but I think if I ever lived elsewheer I'd quite like France, close enough to be home and yet it would be in France!! Having said that we have some beautiful places here too.

-- Edited by RobH on Saturday 20th of March 2010 12:53:37 PM

Sue T · Veteran Member

Wella hi - I actual use 12pay for one of my payroll clients - will look at the CIS.

Sue

Wella · Expert

Sue

How do you find 12Pay, is it as good as it appears to be? Any downsides to using it?

Should be an easyish move to CIS as you already have 12Pay

Bill

Sue T · Veteran Member

Hi Bill

12Pay is good I have the free download and do my own reports/payslips. It is user friendly and the instruction downloads are good.

I am pretty fed up with HMRC they seem unable to control their online service faults.

Sue

Wella · Expert

Tell me about it

I was recently authorised as a PAYE agent for a client, duly entered the authorisation code he received. Now a month later I have no clients listed and no outstanding clients waiting authorisation - he has disappeared.

I also set up a new client as a new employer via the online process, during the process HMRCs end glitched, I re entered the clients details. Today I received two new employer packs for him with two differerent employer reference numbers. Now I have to phone the local tax office on Monday to get one cancelled. That's probably another hour wasted, waiting for a reply.

While I was doing my own SA online, the system failed and there was an error message saying that HMRC had not received the return. That was in the early part of October, it finally got fixed their end in mid December

It is a real concern that the HMRC system is so unstable, considering their requirements. It does not do us any favours either when you have to tell a client their on line filing has failed. They think its your fault!

It can only get better, can't it?

Bill

CGA Bookkeeping Services · Veteran Member

Hi Rob

I was just reading the posts on this thread and wanted to ask you about IRIS; we also use IRIS although we are not as happy as we once were. We have been experiencing problems throughout most of the modules but particularly business tax (re AIA) and accounts production (re CA2006 disclosures etc).

I was just wondering if you have experienced any such problems and if you have how have you found the telephone support?

Sue,
Regarding the CIS software we use a product by Moneysoft Payroll Manager; the basic version of the program priced at £55.00 + VAT incudes the CIS module and allows returns to be easily submitted electronically. We are very impressed with it! If you are interested in purchasing please let us know as we can pass you on a discount.

Regards

Paul Harrison
http://www.cgabookkeeping.co.uk/

RobH · Expert

Hi Paul,

the only problems I have had with Iris over the past few years is that sometimes the capital allowances aren't calculated, so I end up having to go back and it the 'recalculate button'. I mentioned this to Iris a couple of years ago and they said they had not heard that one before and didn't pursue it! I was anooyed (and again mentioned this to them) that they now use an 0844 telephone number which means that they earn xp per minute we are on the line. It is promoted as 'lo-call' but it isn't at all it is just a away they make more money. I think when you pay the money we pay for the service they should let us have technical support.
I'm a bit behind on my disclosures as I haven't upgraded to SQL from Btrieve and so I cannot load the latest update!

CGA Bookkeeping Services · Veteran Member

Rob

So does that mean you've not been able to install an update since December last year then?

In that case you have been saved all the issues with recent updates!

Paul

RobH · Expert

yep! Last week I called the help desk to get then to assist in the cvhangeover to SQL server and thay are going to call back in half an hour...still. My cheque for £5k is still unwritten, I assume they realise it would be enormous hassle for me to change to Digita or the like though.