Charity Accounts - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

lor · Guru

Charity Accounts

lor · Guru

no answer yet???

RobH · Expert

Hi Lorraine, I don't have any direct experience with charities...maybe check the charity commissions website. I think they are set up normally as a company limited by guarantee and that the articles of association have to be written correctly in order to avoid corporation tax, e.g if there is a membership, there has to be a register of members and a proper consideration paid (even if it is £1 per membvership). Bit of a specialised area maybe but one that I'm sure is not insurmountable...just don't know much about it personally! Going to bed now after an hour on you tube..me showing my daughter Kate Bush and she countering with Lady Ga Ga...obviously I won!

Ann-marie · Senior Member

Hi there,

I currently work full time for a medium sized charity as well as doing a bit of bookkeeping in my spare time, so I might be able to give you some pointers. I don't quite understand what the query was regarding the Gift Aid and the cash supplier, could you explain a bit further..maybe it's me not understanding.

In the mean time HMRC have some great notes and explanations on their site to do with Gift Aid, Here's the link to the site...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/giving/gift-aid.htm

Also like Rob suggested the charity commission website is a good one to be looking at:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/

and this is some further information on recruiting new trustees:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc30.aspx?

Ann-marie

lor · Guru

would of went for lady gaga myself!, or ellie goulding, quite like her at the mo,

I have decided I think to do the bookkeeping myself and get an accountant friend of mine who has more experience than myself in charity acs to do the more complicated stuff!

lor · Guru

cheers Ann-Marie, I will have a good read of those websites!.
with regards to the gift aid, the charity has said that they had some wotk done by a guy, who invoiced them but said instead of the charity paying that they could put the cash through as gift aid, does that make any sense?

lor · Guru

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/giving/gift-aid.htm

from reading this, I understand, correct me if I am wrong, that the person donating to the charity has to put the gift aid on their tax return, can the charity claim back the gift aid themself then?

Admittedly I am a bit confused!

lor · Guru

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingMoney/GivingMoneyToCharity/DG_10015097

this explains it a bit more!

would it be the charity's duty to make sure that the donor has paid the relevant tax already? or is that not necessary?

-- Edited by lor on Saturday 27th of March 2010 10:26:39 AM

RobH · Expert

Hi Lorraine,

my understanding from memory is that the charity wouldhave something signed by the donor to say they pay tax, the the charity will claim the tax back. the charity has to keep records of course in case there is an inspection. The donor can put the gift aid payment on the tax return but will only get tax relief on the donation if they are higher rate tax payers.

Lorraine, You Tube 'This Woman's Work' by Kate Bush and then tell me the Ga Ga girl is better!
Rob

lor · Guru

you win, that is a good tune from the bush! lol

lor · Guru

ok, so what you are saying RobH that the charity can claim for the Gift Aid, does the charity have to make sure that the donor applies the correct method or is that down to the donor?

lor · Guru

I am just doing the books for the charity and don't want to have to worry about the donor if I don't have to!

RobH · Expert

Hi Lorraine...very gracious of you to let the bush win the battle of the babes!

It is my understanding that so long as the donor has signed whatever the charity has to have signed to say that the donor is a tax payer then the charity automatically claims the tax on the donation (grosses it up). The charity needs to have these signed records to back up the claim though. But I am working from a dim and distant memory of something I think I read once!

Maybe our newest member Jo, with her CTA hat on might know something?

lor · Guru

well lady gaga is one of my favs, but i have been known to love 80's music aswell!, sure bush (not the president) is
from the 80's, I also like pet shop boys, and I love ellie golding, and killers, my music taste is quite varied!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

personally I preferred Kate in the 70's (The kick inside, Lionheart).

Actually, making me feel old now as most music that I like is from the 70's. (Pink Floyd, Kate Bush, T-Rex, Yes, Led Zeppelin, etc.).

Ooh, I do like Sisters of Mercy so suppose I like some newer stuff!

RobH · Expert

I bought my first ipod last week and I have downloaded Kick Inside (I saw her perform twice and she only toured once...I was fifteen and in love!), Jam best of and Pinl Floys Animals (and also Joe Jackson's different for girls as asingle)....was looking at the Zeppelin stuff but couldn't make up my mind!

lor · Guru

may sound like a silly question but do ltd charity show on companies house in the same section as ltd companies? - in the search bit?

RobH · Expert

They certainly do if they are companies limited by guarantee, not sure if there are other ways of forming them though.

lor · Guru

thanks for your answer. I have managed to gain the client, but previous accountant is making it difficult. I have been given the sage back up from the client, I have restored the data but then it has asked for a password, I am asssuming this would be a password that the accountant has put on it!. But now the accountant has said that he hasn't got a password and I can't look at any of the work the previous accountant has done. Sorry i'm annoyed, it is now seeming almost impossible for me to do the accounts!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Lorraine,

Silly question,

does the client have the password?

lor · Guru

thats a good question, they say they haven't, I have also tried the generic password, "manager" but that hasn't worked.

Amanda · Expert

The accountant or client must have the password. I have set up pass words on mine, because at the beginning my son used my laptop occasionally to print off his homework (now got his own printer and PC). Also when you restore it asks you for the password as well.
Sounds like they are being awkward.
A

lor · Guru

ok thanks Amanda, I will persevere, I am quite a determined person, It is the accountant being awkward.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Your looking at this the wrong way Lorraine,

the problem is not yours, it's your clients.

It is up to the client to get records to you in a form that is readable and complete.

Are you saying that the client is not able to look at their records on their own system? If they can then perhaps taking a new backup would be better.

If they cannot then it is really your client who should be playing merry hell with the previous accountants in order for them to be able to pass you the required data in a readable form.

On the backups just try the name of the charity and the name of the accountancy practice to see if either of those work (assuming here that your not limited on the number of attempts that you get to open the file).

Is there an option to open read only? If you can then open read only and then save a non read only copy.

That last one may not be an option but if it is it may get you past the problem.

lor · Guru

okay I will try that later, I am at work at the moment.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

I'm just such a slow typer. I was still responding to the message before yours.

You're right, one or both of them have a password somewhere. Personally I can't believe that someone at the clients office doesn't have a copy.

Whoever it was that worked on this account has that password.

I think though that my point is quite valid that its down to the client to supply the data in a form where Lorraine is able to read it.

RobH · Expert

Have you asked Sage if there is a way of changing password?

Amanda · Expert

Lor,

Ask if the client have ever had a back up disc from the accountant, like previous years, the reason I say this is when I give a back up disc to the accountant I always write the password on the disc to save the accountant ringing me to get it. Just a thought, or get the client to ask the accountant if he has previous back-up discs in the file maybe they might have had the password on the disc.
You never know you might get lucky.

HTH A

Amanda · Expert

Shaun, you need to take you RSA 1 & 2 or whatever they are called now, its the most useful qualification I ever got at night school.
It does make me laugh when I have worked in offices seeing the young girls and men for that matter typing with 1 and 2 fingers.
I use to work with a lady who was alot faster than me she was amazing! She could talk to you and type at the same time and still be 100% accurate.

A

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

doesn't that sort of annul the idea of a password!

Seems like writing your pin number on your credit card!

Amanda · Expert

Yes I see what you mean but once I didn't write it on there and the accountant was annoyed that I hadn't wrote it on there.

But yes I suppose thats abit silly really.
You never know Lor might get lucky that way. Maybe they have them all in a Diary or something, I sure they could find it.

Lor,
Try 123 I know when we had passwords set up for work they always started off with the company name and then 123, then we were allowed to change them once set up, that was for a Sales system.

HTH A

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Also try the word "password".

That's just in case the person who set it might have read Lord of the Rings.

"speak friend and enter" which was engraved on the back gate to Moria equated to saying the word friend for the door to open.

In a similar way when the first film came out there was an IT security alert about people adopting the same principle with "Enter password".

lor · Guru

thank you for your answer, I have tried again tonight and I am fairly certain the data has been corrupted.

Shamus I think you are correct that the client should have all relevant records and files ready for me to work on.

They have asked me this evening to go to the accountant to get the data, they have offered to pay me for this, but I don't feel that that would be something that I am happy to do, as the accountant guy should be dealing with the client directly and I take over from there, or vice versa, I don't want to be the one inbetween some sort of mess.

I didn't realise, and wasn't told that it would be like this (by the client). Most of my clients have been easy, I LOVE easy clients, I want more of them, lol!

lor · Guru

client has agreed that he will collect the disk, then I will collect from him!

RobH · Expert

Good result Lorraine..charities always seem to pay well too!

lor · Guru

thats good they pay well!. I thought the opposite for some reason, thinking that maybe they would not have much money.

But I have been told that the charity is hoping to grow therefore more work for me and be paid more.

Is the bookkeeping in general the same for charity as other businesses?, this is my first charity and wondered what the main differnece would be?

RobH · Expert

Things will be fairly similar I think, when you get a working sage back up you will be able to look at any unusual nominal codes that have been set up and see how things have been treated. I'm sure you wuill have no problems with it Lorraine.

lor · Guru

cheers rodney