MLR - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

MLR

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Angela,

Fear not, we're saving our stones for when the politicians start a calling at our doors over the next few weeks.

I could be wrong but I think that it's in the small print of the practicing certificate of the ICB that in order to call yourself an ICB practice all of your employee's must be ICB!

Never too late to swap allegiances over to the IAB!

With the IAB it's you personally who register as a member in practice and it's up to you who you hire. (unlike the ICB where it is the practice that you register).

Tempted by the dark side yet young Jedi?

Marky65 · Guru

I think that you are right Shaun. I seem to remember that this continues on along their thinking that if an employee is not qualified then they would not be able to carry out bookkeeping work for clients.

Regards

Mark

additionsbookkeeping · Veteran Member

How easy is it to transfer to the IAB if you are ICB qualified? I must be the only person on here thats contacted them and not heard back!!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Additions,

Just give them a call.

The people at the IAB are really friendly and helpful.

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

Hi Mark & shaun,

Thank you for your replies.

I'm signed up for another year with ICB (she says, putting her head above the parapet) as I want to do some more study (in the not too distant future), and just looking around to see where and who I want to take that on with, so I want some time to look around the various options. I'm thankful that I am very busy, but the down side is it doesn't leave me with a lot of time for research.

I don't know how you do those link things with other threads so have copied and pasted a quote from Bob Harper, whichn kind of links to my post.

'I checked with ICB and spoke with Gary Carter and believe that non ICB
members can be employed for data entry if supervised. However, if it
was the case we would look at alternatives'

So you are ICB you can take on non ICB bookkeepers or data entry clerks so long as they are supervised, which I guess means they have MLR reg. elsewhere?

Regards

Brewsie · Veteran Member

Surely it is the business (practice) that is supervised for MLR purposes, not the individual staff.

I think that

'...non ICB members can be employed for data entry if supervised'

means supervised by YOU i.e you are responsible for their work, not MLR supervision.

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

Hi Ian,

It would make sense to me that, me as the practice, is covered for MLR and I then supervise who ever I employ.

I'm going to email ICB for written clarification.

Regards

Stardoe · Guru

Phew, what with all these rules, regulations, red tape, who can and can't be employed, supervised for MLR etc etc. does anyone manage to get any actual work done?! lol

Pauline

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

Hi Pauline,

I Know what you mean.

I spoke to ICB about employing bookkeepers. If you employee ICB members, then they have to be upto date with their membership and they get 'attached' to your practice number. Or if you employe outside of ICB you have to prove your employee has MLR cover, which could then be an added expense to your business, unless they have already got cover themselves.

Regards

Brewsie · Veteran Member

Angela

I hate to disagree with what you have been told, but it doesn't make sense!

Each business has a regulator for MLR - that can be the ICB, the FSA, one of the accountancy bodies or HMRC etc.

Individual employees do not have to be regulated.

The following is taken from the ICB's New Professional Conduct Rules (http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/mlr/guidance) and says that the member (i.e. the business) is responsible for their employees

32B (a). A Member in private practice should ensure that their employees and associates receive regular training to ensure that client identification procedures are carried out correctly and that knowledge and suspicions of money laundering or terrorist financing are reported.

(b). A Member in private practice who has either employees or associates should nominate an individual to receive and assess money laundering reports from colleagues and to make reports to the Serious organized crime agency

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Brewsie,

It's my company, not myself that is registered as a practice with the ICB so MLR is for the practice not the person (which would agree with your thinking).

However, even though it's now disappeared. There was a line on the ICB site that stated that an ICB practice could only call itself such if all staff were ICB which restricted who I could hire but there was nothing there about me needing for each staff member to be registered individually for MLR.

Reading the site now it seems that this has disappeared to be replaced with the stuff about if people are not ICB then they need to have their own cover which is basically fair enough as the ICB is stating that it will only cover people for MLR who in some way are affiliated to it.

The problem, and where I agree with your definition is that it is my practice, not myself that is covered for MLR as it's the practice name on the practicing certificate. Therefore, such means that anyone working for that practice should be covered for MLR. (The practice has a nominated individual and all staff would be trained therefore where is the ICB's problem).

If this had been the IAB practicing certificate we were talking about then I would agree with Angela as the IAB give the practicing certificate to an individual, not to a company so it's a different situation.

Well, thats my take on it.

Shaun.

semsley · Guru

If it is the practice that is registered then that would be classed as a business I expect and therefore if a business is covered for MLR then all it's employees are.

The stupid thing about MLR is people doing our type of work in a company that has nothing whatsoever to do with being a financial services company (or whatever the proper term is) don't have to be registered irrespective or whether or not said company has a MLR policy.

Let's face it, the introduction of MLR was merely another way good ole Gordy had of making a bit more money for him to waste.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Don't you just love the way that they snook tax avoidance into anti terrorism legislation to give it more power and get it through faster...

Anyway, fingers crossed Browns days are now numbered... Hope that the conservatives remember their pledge to repeal the damn stupid IR35 regulations.

semsley · Guru

Yep, but I wouldn't bet on Broon's numbered days. If Clegg's current popularity holds up he could yet remain in power being propped up by the Lib Dums. Remember with our FPTP system it's not the number of votes you win it's the number of seats. Democracy Shamocracy that's what we got.

Wella · Expert

Just taking a step back.

If I was an employee of an accounting firm I wouldn't need to be registered would I?
If I run several practices, I need to register each of the premises

The confusion seems to be with the ICB regulations as the MLR regs seem pretty staright forward.

My practice licence is in my business name and it is the business that is registered for MLR purposes, therefore any employee is also covered, however said employee may not, due to lack of qualifications or membership be allowed through ICB rules.

Think I got that right

Bill

Brewsie · Veteran Member

Bill - Good summary; that is also how I see it.

AngelaWBS · Senior Member

Hi Guys,

Sorry for delayed response...........but just wanted to say thank you for all your input.

attilabenko · Guru

hi,

anyway if i am employed by a bookkeeping practice as a bookkeper (with icb qualifications) i do not have to have a practice license(as i am an employee) so i can,t have mlr either with icb (or can i?)...but the practice is still icb practice with mlr..
i don,t know the answer to the original question what if the employee is not icb qualified but i assume why would you have to have 2 mlrs for one practice? or as soon as you employ nonicb employee icn mlr is not valid?
it is a good idea to get written confirmation from them. if you phone them twice you will get two different answers,,,

Attila

Wella · Expert

Hi Attila

I believe that to be a partnership practice through the ICB both partners need to be ICB qualified to use the crest, call themselves certified etc.

For money laundering, the practice appoints a MLRO (money laundering reporting officer). It is this person takes responsibility for the due diligence, administration and ensuring staff are up to date and trained. If, like me the practice is a sole practitioner, then I get the job.

Bill

attilabenko · Guru

hi bill,
i think you are right about partnership. but what if it is an ltd with lots of employees?can you employ anyone and still be icb practice and get mlr with them?i know there is not much chances of this situation, if a company grows this big not going to care about icb...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Attila,

funny you should ask that.

The ICB website used to have a line on it that if one used a limited company model as your commercial form (which I do) then all employee's had to be ICB.

HOWEVER... That lines disappeared and now everything seems to be on the MLR page with no mention of all employees being ICB but it would seem that the ICB will only cover ICB members for MLR.

Unfortunately that goes against the requirements of MLR which is as Bill states that the practice has a MLRO to report to and that all staff are trained in MLRO.

Thinking outside the box here but I think that you're right and if you're a limited company with employee's then you've already outgrown the ICB who in the real world pretty much mean diddly squat as I've yet to find a client who has actually heard of them.

Right, that's my two penneth, open to the floor!

Shaun.