Genny Jones - More than an accountant - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

gennyjones · Member

Genny Jones - More than an accountant

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Either this is a wind up or you've got one heck of a hangover this morning Genny!

I'm sorry but I find this embarrassing. It's like the woman off the apprentice who did that little dance before a presentation. But of course, more serious as you as an FMAAT are a representative of the accountancy profession.

I am sure that as an FMAAT (from your other post) you are well aware that you are bound by the IFAC rules of professional conduct that state that you have a responsibility not to do anything that could be deemed to lessen the standing of the profession or bring it into disrepute.

I am sure that singing / dancing accountants would be a never ending source of amusement to the directors of various boards. However that sort of behaviour does nothing to further the professional standing of our supervisory bodies.

If you were a complete newbie lack of knowledge of the consequences of this sort of behavior then this could be forgiven but as a professional member in practice you must know the IFAC code therefore if this came to the attention of the AAT you might very quickly find yourself with no letters after your name.

I think that at your earliest convenience you should withdraw from your appointment to act as a dancing monkey at an AGM and think very seriously about what your status or more to the point loss of it actually means to you.

lor · Guru

What sort of board meeting was this! doesn't seem right to have that at a board meeting, lol

gennyjones · Member

Thanks for your email

It was a charity that deals wiht chidlren. I did my confidence buidling exercise and then used the dance routine to get people to relax. It did go down well!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Genny,

I don't think that you should misconstrue the replies as compliments.

gennyjones · Member

Thanks so much fiord your comments.

Also I am not a dancing monkey for your information, I love what i am now doing and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Well it is great news as from 1st of June, I will no longer be offering accounting services as I am now in the position of doing My life coaching focussing on my character "Confidence Queen" I have now got contracts to go to schools and various charities to teach children how to develop their esteem and confidence building, part of this will include teaching money management skills.

I am also going to be featured in a BBC show about this - my now new business venture Confident Queen, I am totally booked now up to December. I will alos be featured in the Barclys Bank Magazine Smart Living where I talk about how I teach children from the age of 5 moneny management skills.

-- Edited by gennyjones on Friday 28th of May 2010 10:07:39 AM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I look forwards to reading your slot in the Barclays magazine. I can see why they would go for this do to the teaching money management to five year olds angle. You might also try approaching RBS, Lloyds and Scottish widows who have similar publications each month.

Keep us informed about the screening of the BBC show as I'm sure that we all want to watch (that really wasn't being cynical by the way).

The problem I have is with the dancing accountant bit which goes totally against IFAC ethical standard 130 and 150 (professional behaviour, bringing the industry into disrepute, acting in a manner likely to discredit the industry and other member practices, etc. etc.).

We strive very hard to be taken seriously as a profession. The last thing that we need is to be turning up at a clients site to be have our profession ridiculed by the acts of one of our members.

From the sound of matters you are moving away from the accountancy side so loss of your status with the AAT probably wouldn't be any hinderence to you... Have you informed the AAT what you are doing! I'm thinking that there may be an interesting telephone conversation from them to you the day after the confidence queen show if your AAT / Accountant status is mentioned at all.

Whilst everyone is entitled to their own opinion nobody is entitled to act in a manner that is detrimental to others.

-- Edited by Shamus on Friday 28th of May 2010 10:49:32 AM

lor · Guru

You will have to let us know the date for the BBC show Genny.

gennyjones · Member

.

-- Edited by gennyjones on Friday 28th of May 2010 12:53:29 PM

gennyjones · Member

I am not bringing the profession into disrepute, and I don't dance for my clients!

My life coaching and accountancy are both two distinct businesses and I know what hat I am wearing each time. It has never been a problem for me in the past and nor will it be in the future.

I will still continue to do my teaching of bookeeping to students, but I am happy that my partner will be running the accountancy business fully, given me time to concentrate and move on other things.

Thanks for your comments and the information on the other banks, which I should have mentioned as I am not promting any particular bank.

-- Edited by gennyjones on Friday 28th of May 2010 01:00:45 PM

-- Edited by gennyjones on Friday 28th of May 2010 01:02:56 PM

-- Edited by gennyjones on Friday 28th of May 2010 01:15:13 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

No probs on the banks, I work with all of them and they're not really that jealous of each other... Well, they can't be as the staff tend to do the rounds of several of them during their careers.

And anyway, Lloyds and Barclays started out as the same bank (more or less) anyway. They were Quaker banks fleeing persecution in Gloucester and set up together in London. Same premises, different sets of books... Mmm, maybe I should mention that they're really Quakers to the incumbent management!!!... Think maybe that ideology actually dropped by the wayside somewhere along the road to profit.

Dancing for clients comes directly from your first post.

1) I then had the opportunity of developing a song and dance routine and my character Confidence Queen

2) The other day I was quite please to receive a booking to do my act at a companys AGM

And that's where bringing us into disrepute comes from.

I am a blunt and honest person. If someone is making a fool of themselves then I tell them where others would think that they are making a fool of themselves but actually tell them that they are doing wonderfully which just perpetuates the problem.

Nobody can tell you what to do or how to act but to see yourself through the honest eye's of others rather than your own may change your perception of yourself.

gennyjones · Member

Thanks again

I do appreciate your opnion and but I still don't feel i am bringing the proffession into disrepute. Well I am not going to be dancing for all my accoutancy clients!

Believe me, I am one person who welcome people to give me thier opinion about the things I am doing and I don't feel bad, because this is how they see me which is fine.

I do welcome your advice and comments, but I don't feel I am making a fool of myself.

Robert G · Member

gennyjones wrote:

Thanks again

I do appreciate your opnion and but I still don't feel i am bringing the proffession into disrepute.

Stick a video on YouTube and we'll judge for ourselves

.

gennyjones · Member

Thanks for your reply and suggestion Robert.

Right now things have just escalated , as I am also working on the production of my own show "BE CONFIDENT" and my book with the same tittle. and a CD "I'm a confident child" that the children in the charity I set up are going to be producing with the help of a music company.

I am not a fool or a dancing monkey as has been suggested, and I find this very offensive. I think it is good to give constructive criticism without being rude.

I am doing what I enjoy, I am getting paid for it, I am making some people laugh, which is ok by me, and now this is the part of my business to focus on, helping people to be confident and just have fun.

I have been running my two distinct businesses separately, creating employment for others; I have set up 2 charities to help children and parents. I help a lot of charities to raise funds through the interesting things I do which are not connected to my bookkeeping services.

Whatever you do in this world, some will love it, some would hate it, some will criticise it, but its all good.

I shall post details of the show!

Marywashington · Member

This is interesting reading.

Shamus, does it mean that an accountant should not have another business? It seems to me that Genny has two different types of business and one is the serious bookkeeping and the other sounds fun - life coaching and having fun making people laugh. Also you should aplogise to her for refering to her as a dancing monkey before she sues you for defamation of character.

Good luck to you Genny on your show as you are destined for fame and fortune.

Their is a famous doctor called Doctor Patch Adams who was a registered medical doctor and also a clown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Adams_(film)

In Britain's got talent, there was also a contestant called the singing accountant, he did get press coverage. As someone who is training to one day be a bookkeeper, I feel most people think and accountant is boring and too serious, so if someone decides to show that they can be professional but have a fun side to them I don't see anything wrong with that!

Marywashington · Member

Well Robert, I have been interested by this so I did a search and this is what I found http://www.43things.com/people/progress/gennyjones/14515880 and this links to a youtube video. What do you think?

I think its a laugh and she must be laughing all the way to the bank it seems! Facinating person. She is for sure more than an accountant!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Mary,

welcome to the forum and good luck with your bookkeeping studies.

there is no reason that an accountant may not have multiple business interests but an accountant may not do anything in any business interest or privately that discredits the profession.

Taking the ACCA as an example they have made it clear that minor issues such as being arrested for drunken pranks whilst a student will be looked on leniently but more serious matters will result in disciplinary action and possible exclusion under bylaw 8.

All of the accountancy bodies, AAT included are signed up the the IFAC codes of practice which in general is aimed at ensuring that our profession is regarded with the respect necessary to be taken seriously by the management of businesses and society in general.

Because of the nature of accountancy there is no differentiation in how one behaves when one has their accountants hat on to when one does not.

A bookkeeper and an accountant are two different things. ICB / IAB fall into the bookkeeping category, ACCA / CIMA are accountants. The crossover is AAT where a fully qualified MAAT is an accountant.

Basically, if you sign up for accountancy then you are signing up everything else in your life to be judged by your accountancy body as to whether you are a fit and proper person to hold that title.

There is nothing wrong with the person on Britains got talent being an accountant and aspiring to be a singer as there is sufficient segregation of roles between the business and personal life. Nothing that the accountant was doing could be deemed to be bringing the profession into disrepute.

And on that chain of thought there is nothing wrong with Genny's work in teaching five year olds about money management which obviously requires a different skillset to accountancy texts! The problem is with the singing and dancing for clients at an AGM.

Think about that episode of the apprentice where the one woman did a little dance to relax the audience before the presentation... Remember how everyone squirmed but actually told her she was doing fine... Remember how she was the one who was fired!

I've tried to warn Genny what's going to happen to her but it's really down to her whether she listens. I have no intention of arguing with her or reporting her. I've told her about the IFAC code (which as an accountant should be ingrained in her every action anyway) what more can I do to convince her that she's making a mistake.

Sometimes in life one has to face that people will aim their car at a wall and put their foot firmly down on the gas and no matter how much you try to convince them of how it will inevitably end they will continue undeterred.

Rhianrach · Expert

Marywashington wrote:

This is interesting reading.

Shamus, does it mean that an accountant should not have another business? It seems to me that Genny has two different types of business and one is the serious bookkeeping and the other sounds fun - life coaching and having fun making people laugh. Also you should aplogise to her for refering to her as a dancing monkey before she sues you for defamation of character.

Good luck to you Genny on your show as you are destined for fame and fortune.

Their is a famous doctor called Doctor Patch Adams who was a registered medical doctor and also a clown. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Adams_(film)

In Britain's got talent, there was also a contestant called the singing accountant, he did get press coverage. As someone who is training to one day be a bookkeeper, I feel most people think and accountant is boring and too serious, so if someone decides to show that they can be professional but have a fun side to them I don't see anything wrong with that!

In fairness gennyjones did at first come to this forum emphasising that she was an FMAAT and liked to dance at AGMs, this maybe where Shaun picked up on the whole accountancy ethics thing.
Dancing and acting a clown is one thing and I'm sure it's a great thing, doing it under the guise of FMAAT though possibly isn't the best thing in the world.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Afternoon Steve,

don't get sucked into this one it's a minefield and I really don't think that Genny see's it at all.

It did occur to me after posting the last reply that Mary's avatar is a mannequin, namely something pretending to be what it is not! Oooh, deep!

I never actually refered to Genny as a dancing Monkey. I referred to the appointment that she had was for her to act as one and she should withdraw from it because to act in such a way is below what is expected of an FMAAT.

Deformation of character is a direct insult, not genuine advice as to how one may be perceived by others or referral to the position that one is being hired for.

If you re-read the comment at the end of my first reply it never refers to Genny as a dancing Monkey it refers to the management of the AGM expecting her to act as one... I could just as easily have referred to the gig as a dancing bear or dancing clown but such is just semantics.

The issue is adherence to the IFAC code of ethics and how others (management and the public) perceive FMAAT's.

Actually, I've not been answering Genny's messages. Better just clear that point up for her as I think that she's remembering only part of a reply and taking it out of context.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 30th of May 2010 01:03:16 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Genny,

whilst answering Steve it occured that I should just clarify a point.

I never referred to you as a dancing monkey.

I referred to the management of a company expecting you to act as a dancing monkey!

The two are quite different and if you are annoyed at anyone it should be them.

I do apologise if you took that the wrong way as I would not insult people in that way and the way that was taken was just a misunderstanding.

However, please do not misconstrue this apology over a misunderstanding for agreement with the accountant singing and dancing in front of the management and shareholders at an AGM.

Whilst that may seem ok to yourself we must to consider our actions through the eye's of other accountants and finance professionals.

After our last exchange of messages I thought that we were all done with this and just appreciated that each of us had their own viewpoint but since Roberts message last night it all seems to have been raked up again.

Right, misunderstandings aside lets just put this to bed and agree to disagree.

-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 30th of May 2010 01:02:45 PM

gennyjones · Member

Thanks to everyone for your commnets

Shamus I thank you for clarifivation and the information and advice you have provided.

I think it is all getting out of hand and I would like to just thank you all for your interests.

-- Edited by gennyjones on Sunday 30th of May 2010 01:20:15 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Agreed.

Good luck with all your future ventures Genny especially the teaching of financial awareness to five year olds which sounds an interesting project.

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:

Taking the ACCA as an example they have made it clear that minor issues such as being arrested for drunken pranks whilst a student will be looked on leniently but more serious matters will result in disciplinary action and possible exclusion under bylaw 8.

I'm a bit worried now with the ICB. Maybe it will be nothing. But on their membership upgrade form they ask
Do you have any criminal convictions?
Have you ever been found guilty of a civil offence?

Unfortunately in my idiotic youth I have a few times. The last one was in 1988. I would regard all them as minor offences as they all resulted in just fines. Worryingly the first of my offences was for fraud. I paid half price for a train fare when I was over 16 and was taken to court and fined £5. (It was travelling home from an international friendly at Hampden Park so there were transport police on the journey home).

Should I just tick "No" as the convictions are spent? If I tick yes and they ask for more information, how is it going to look when I say "well, my first conviction was for fraud......."

Wella · Expert

Hi Peasie

Under The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1975 (I think) you are not obliged to reveal "spent" convictions, which means basically anything which is over five years old and did not involve a prison sentence of more than two years. That's why points and endorsements get wiped from your driving licence (most driving offences are criminal convictions).

To all intents and purposes, after that time period they never happened

There are some exceptions (Postal workers, police officers, judges and some financial and legal positions) but for the ICB AAT IAB etc, the standard rules apply. I have noticed that some make reference to the Act but the ICB doesn't. The rule is, that if asked and your convictions are spent, you can legitimately say NO. I also believe that convictions when some one is under the age of 17 have an even shorter life span

Bill

-- Edited by Wella on Sunday 30th of May 2010 03:06:14 PM

Peasie · Expert

Thanks for that - a weight off my mind.

Robert G · Member

Marywashington wrote:

Well Robert, I have been interested by this so I did a search and this is what I found http://www.43things.com/people/progress/gennyjones/14515880 and this links to a youtube video. What do you think?

I think its a laugh and she must be laughing all the way to the bank it seems! Facinating person. She is for sure more than an accountant!

Thanks for the link Mary. It's certainly...erm...a refreshing perspective on life smile

.

adi2402 · Senior Member

Just watched the video and I feel that if "House of Pain" want to sue for a blatent rip of of their seminal track of 1992 "Jump Around" then you may have a case to answer too!

gennyjones · Member

Thanks a lot for for bringing this to my attention as I was not aware of this.

-- Edited by gennyjones on Thursday 3rd of June 2010 03:25:32 PM

adi2402 · Senior Member

:)

Stardoe · Guru

Anyone see the singing accountant on Britain's Got Talent? Wonder what he's going to do now that he didn't win!

Pauline

Wella · Expert

He should definitely stick to singing, or find another career

He is so not happy being a "boring" accountant (his words, not mine) that it can't be good for him.

Bill

Stardoe · Guru

He was a good singer. Makes you wonder why, if he finds accountancy so boring, he went into it in the first place.

Pauline

semsley · Guru

Security, perhaps - a singing career can be feast or famine.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

So can Accountancy!!!

lor · Guru

Stardoe wrote:

Anyone see the singing accountant on Britain's Got Talent? Wonder what he's going to do now that he didn't win!

Pauline

yeah he lives near me!

Stardoe · Guru

lol...do you know him then Lor?