I am trying to find myself a bookkeeping qualification that is easy to work out from home but also recognized by other Bookkeeping bodies if the need arises to switch without sacrifising alot.
For example, ICB seems easiest of the three here to completed at home. But I dont know the other two bodies would react when it comes to awarding exemptions, etc.
Let's take ICB's Level III Diploma in Bookkeeping for example. Now upon completion, if I wanted to go ahead with IAB would it consider ICB's level-III diploma in the same regard as their level-III diploma and let me go ahead with a level-IV diploma? (please note just to keep things simple, you can also compare ICB's Level Level III Diploma in Payroll Management with IAB's Level 3 Diploma in Payrollor Computerised Payroll).
And what if had to down the diploma route with AAT with a level-III diploma from ICB, would they let me start at an advanced level ?
Any suggestions, observations or your own experience or something you have read before from other memebers would be truly welcome. Also suggest what would be the best route to start and then transfer later on to AAT.
You can click on these links to view the respected syllabuses to save time:
Having been in a similar position to yourself in wanting to to do your studying from home, I would say that if you only want to be considered as a bookkeeper IAB qualifications are well regarded - and transferable if you wish to move to AAT ; from what others have written on this Forum,this is not the case with ICB. If you wish to be regarded eventually as an accountant, AAT is certainly your best route as you can go 'all the way' with them. I did IAB and have no complaints; their exams are rigorous and there are now level 4 qualifications in management accounts and personal and business taxation - I gained the latter last year . My ambitions in the area of bookkeeping are modest and with IAB qualifications I could achieve them all - and more. That being said with a little bit of extra effort I could have gone down the AAT diploma route and possibly wider professional acknowledgement. There are plenty of comments on this Forum from others that have led me to be grateful that I did not do ICB.
Basically, my main problem is my geographic location. I live in Pakistan and at this time I dont think I'd be able to write IAB's exams anywhere here. Otherwise, I'd go with IAB.
Also, are both ICB and IAB at the same level of difficulty when it comes to courses?
__________________
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
whilst there are similarities IAB is more alligned to the accountancy qualifications which is why it is accepted for some exemptions from the higher qualifications. This also makes it slightly more difficult espechially when you get to level 4.
My belief was that the IAB qualification was more internationally recognised than the ICB one. Coming from Pakistan you're in a much better position to myself to confirm whether that is true or not from your perspective.
I know that the last time I was in Thailand they had heard of IAB, ACCA and CIMA but not ICB or AAT!
In the UK the situation is that to be taken seriously by employers you should be AAT qualified possibly with the intention of moving on to ACCA / CIMA or ACA.
Only a few of the ICB exams are available to be sat from home, for the rest you need to attend a recognised centre. Do you have one close to you? If so, this may prove to be your best option but as mentioned by Kenneth (Robertson) it's not a particularly useful qualification for exemptions, employment or recognition purposes.
What the ICB qualification would do though is to teach you the basics of bookkeeping and for that it does it well.
All comes down really to what you actually want from the qualification, knowledge, recognition or both. To my mind the ICB qualification only satisfies the first of those.
Good luck with your studies,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Shaun, living in Pakistan is like calling people out of their caves with a flamed torch. I'd say we are still living in the dark ages when it comes to accounting.
That said, the present scenario is that about 3 years ago people here had no clue whatsoever about ACCA and since then its a big hit here and everybody wants to get into it these days. CIMA has just been introduced here like last year and now its gaining momentum here, and there.
80% of the people enrolled in CIMA in pakistan do so to get away from CAT to save time and money. Since both CIMA's certificate and CAT are awarded pretty much the same credentials or exemptions, therefore folks get the business certificate via CIMA and then begin F4 onwards enroute the ACCA here. (which is quite sad and interesting at the same time) my feelings in this case are ----> +
A question that comes to mind is upto what level of ICB or IAB is good enough to get a starting position with a bookkeeping company in UK? In my case I am thinking what I can do is finish the absolute minimum from ICB and then have less courses to complete when I come to UK next year.
__________________
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Thanks for the info on the state of the industry in Pakistan.
Unfortunately the situation is that no UK employer wants ICB or IAB. Have a look at something like the Reed website which has thousands of job ads and all bookkeeping roles require a minimum of either fully qualified AAT or Part Qualified ACCA / CIMA.
There are a few ads for Part qualified AAT but not that many.
If you do IAB it at least gives some exemptions but the ICB qualification gives no exemptions and is not generally recognised by UK employers.
With the current jobs market in the UK no qualification is a guarantee of work but AAT puts people into a much better position than either ICB or IAB... That's actually something else that you'll notice on the Reed website. It tells you how many people have applied for each advertised job and in most cases it's hundreds of applicants for every available job.
All the best and keep us all informed of your decisions and progress,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
your post popped up a few questions in my mind....
1- What do most people with ICB/IAB certifications do, in UK?
2- If ICB isnt widely recognized by employers then what makes them sell themselves to prospective students and what do you think attracts prospective bookkeepers to it?
3- I'd like to quote you here, "If you do IAB it at least gives some exemptions but the ICB qualification gives no exemptions and is not generally recognised by UK employers."
what kind of exemptions are you talking about here?
4- Are ICB credentials transferrable at all towards AAT?
__________________
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
I've written the answers to your questions in blue.
1- What do most people with ICB/IAB certifications do, in UK? Self employed or unemployed.
2- If ICB isnt widely recognized by employers then what makes them sell themselves to prospective students and what do you think attracts prospective bookkeepers to it? It used to be the fastest route for self employed bookkeepers to a practicing certificate that gives you cover for money laundering without having to pay to be vetted by HMRC for around £120. In the UK if you are a bookkeeper and you are not covered for money laundering then you face up to two years imprisonment and an unlimited fine. Recent changes with the ICB requirements to gain a practicing certificate mean that you now need to pass more exams before you gain the practicing cerificate and MLR cover (for which you also need Proffessional Indemnity Insurance (PII)).
3- I'd like to quote you here, "If you do IAB it at least gives some exemptions but the ICB qualification gives no exemptions and is not generally recognised by UK employers."
what kind of exemptions are you talking about here? Exemptions from foundation level AAT, ACCA and CIMA papers. There seems to be a real problem between the ICB and everyone else in that the ICB do not recognise higher body qualifications for it's qualifications and the higher bodies do not recognise the ICB. They do however recognise the IAB qualification.
4- Are ICB credentials transferrable at all towards AAT? No.
However, if you learn via ICB (or OU course B190 or the AAT ABC bookkeeping qualification or indeed just learn from the books without any qualification) then you can take an AAT skills test and they decide whether you should start AAT at foundation or intermediate. That's nothing to do with the ICB qualification, it's to do with the skills that you've acquired whilst studying ICB.
Hope that the above clarifications helped. Remember that in order to practice in the UK you will need MLR cover or face imprisonment and a substantial fine.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
A question that comes to mind is upto what level of ICB or IAB is good enough to get a starting position with a bookkeeping company in UK? In my case I am thinking what I can do is finish the absolute minimum from ICB and then have less courses to complete when I come to UK next year.
None to be honest your better off starting down the AAT route, and taking the chance that you will gain some experience, which is possible if you have family in business that will give you a leg up. To be honest this country probably has no need for any more people in bookkeeping or accounting so could possibly be a bad idea. However India seem to have a lot of openings
Actually Steve, India produces 400,000 new graduates each year so probably not the best idea to go looking in that direction.
Also, year on year wage rises of those graduates kept by the major companies is in the region of around 18% p.a.
This has caused a bit of a problem for India undercutting Western companies and the profit margin has dwindled to the point where they're now selling themselves on superior expertise rather than on price.
We in the UK know that such is not the case but the workers over there are being sold that line and believe it.
Due to the withering profit margin Indian companies have for some time been outsourcing work originally outsourced to India to Pakistan, Mexico, China and the Philippines.
I agree that the UK is not the best place to look for work. Espechially when one looks at teh facts such as 100 to 400 applicants for every job that comes up on the Reed website.
Unfortunately the worldwide perception of the UK is somewhat different from the current reality.
I think that those planning to come here should really take a serious look at the tens of thousands of Polish workers who are abandoning these shores to return to Poland and ask themselves why that is happening!!!
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Actually Steve, India produces 400,000 new graduates each year so probably not the best idea to go looking in that direction.
Also, year on year wage rises of those graduates kept by the major companies is in the region of around 18% p.a.
This has caused a bit of a problem for India undercutting Western companies and the profit margin has dwindled to the point where they're now selling themselves on superior expertise rather than on price.
We in the UK know that such is not the case but the workers over there are being sold that line and believe it.
Due to the withering profit margin Indian companies have for some time been outsourcing work originally outsourced to India to Pakistan, Mexico, China and the Philippines.
I agree that the UK is not the best place to look for work. Espechially when one looks at teh facts such as 100 to 400 applicants for every job that comes up on the Reed website.
Unfortunately the worldwide perception of the UK is somewhat different from the current reality.
I think that those planning to come here should really take a serious look at the tens of thousands of Polish workers who are abandoning these shores to return to Poland and ask themselves why that is happening!!!
I agree, personally if I lived in another country and fancied a move I would do my homework, as like you say people seem to have the impression that everything is rosy here and the streets are paved with gold.
+ 
