Bookkeepers available - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

ayaz786amd · Member

Bookkeepers available

Wella · Expert

You've put your price up from £4/ hour to £5.
Must mean the reccessions over?

-- Edited by Wella on Sunday 25th of July 2010 05:39:33 PM

semsley · Guru

Hey Bill we could be on to a winner here - sub out at £5.00 charge client £15 - earn £10 for doing nowt biggrin

ayaz786amd · Member

you both have great sense of humor but i m serious

kjmcculloch · Guru

Ah now hold on Ayaz, there could be a lot of sense in what Sheila says. I could never hire someone to take up the slack here for a fiver.

Kris

Wella · Expert

Hi Sheila

Being the control freak I am, I couldn't let go of the reigns

Hi
Ayaz

A sense of humour is compulsory

Bill

Amanda · Expert

Like you way of thinking Sheila, thats under our minimum wage for the UK we could make a packet, subbing it out!!!!!

Amanda · Expert

I must admit Bill I wouldn't farm any of my stuff out, I like it under my nose where I can control it!

Where is Shaun!!! I'm sure he will have an opinion on this.

Hes been very quiet on here lately.

-- Edited by Amanda on Monday 26th of July 2010 08:15:47 PM

kjmcculloch · Guru

I could be persuaded if the conditions were right. It's a great way of being able to fully concentrate on growth. It would just be the practicalities and time involved in sending stuff overseas.

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

I don't know anyone who would offshore bookkeeping work directly so as far as I can see the only people who would use this service would be accountancy practices looking to reduce costs by outsourcing.

Considering the economic climate (which is now thankfully improving) accountants have been trying to find sufficient work to keep their own staff employed to weather the storm so I both wish Ayaz the best of luck but know that he is unlikely to be successful in finding work amongst our client base.

More worrying would be the consultancy firms that outsource work to India on an Industrial scale but there again, the work that they outsource is not really the client base that we serve.

This is not worth worrying about from a protectionist standpoint and regardless of that I'm with the general concensus that I like to be in full control of my work output rather than outsourcing it so even if I could make £10 markup I still would not take it as it would cost me more than that in my own time checking that every t was crossed and i dotted on the work that I got back.

Amanda · Expert

Hi Shaun,

Glad to see your back!

I wouldn't outsource any of my work, not that I have enough to outsource anyway at the mo, but like you I would end up checking it all for my own piece of mind.

Like you say the Accountants have been just ticking over during the recession, espcially with clients going bust in these difficult times.

I did know a company who was thinking of outsourcing their work, (not an accounts practice), but it was not to a bookkeeper or an accountant in another country it was to an office junior who had no idea about bookkeeping!!! I did point out it was not a good idea! And the financial side of the business should be taking more seriously!

Hows the new job going in Scotland?

A

-- Edited by Amanda on Tuesday 27th of July 2010 11:06:56 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Evening Amanda,

I think that it's a rel problem with some companies that they concentrate only what'scoming in and not what they manage to hold on to.

What's the sying, it's not what you make it's what you keep that matters!

I think that one of our problems is that if we're any good we keep everything running smoothly and the only time that management realise how much they need us is when everything goes belly up and we're not there.

Works not to bad thanks but susect that I'll have it all finished in three months rather than six. I could make it last but that's just not the sort of person I am. Fingers crossed something interesting will come up in England in mid to late September.

Anyway, I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth in these trying times. Very glad to have some good money coming in for a while.

Hows life with you? Glad to see that you've not changed your avatar :)

Just off to check a few more messages, talk later,

Shaun.

ayaz786amd · Member

Hi Kris,

I am not an unexperienced bookkkeeper. I am an accountant with three years experience of practise. I have two clients in personal UK. And i want more. I want to increase my client base and it wll be profitable for me to provide my services at this rate in my Country. I am working in an outsourcing company so my whole experience of UK accounts, vat, tax, bookkeeping and management accounts. I can not only do bookkeeping but also can make corrections in worst bookkeeping. During my job i have seen number of cases where Uk bookkeeper have done worst bookeeping and we make corrections in it then we prepare accounts.

semsley · Guru

Ayaz, I don't think anyone is questioning your qualifications, experience or ability to do the job but we are all a little sceptical about sending book-keeping work overseas.

ayaz786amd · Member

Yes its easy to work and difficult to convince because this thing is still new for many people. Why not? I mean we need right people for the job no matter from where ever they belong. In a import export business people take raw, semi raw or final products from other countries and sold the product in their country at competitve price. Why not the same process for service industry?

There is only one draw back for this i think and that is lack of physical existence. I am working in a firm in my country for three years and i havent seen the faces of my clients yet but still they are working with us.

Daily correspondence through email, Skype discussions, setting deadlines for each assignment are what is required for it. Definitely you will pay when you are happy with the services.

Rhianrach · Expert

ayaz786amd wrote:

Hi Kris,
I want to increase my client base and it wll be profitable for me to provide my services at this rate in my Country.

Then feel free to do it in your own country.

Rhianrach · Expert

ayaz786amd wrote:

Hi Kris,

During my job i have seen number of cases where Uk bookkeeper have done worst bookeeping and we make corrections in it then we prepare accounts.

And that just sounds to me like your not just saying you are a good bookeeper but better than all UK bookeepers, on a UK bookeepers forum whilst trying to tout for business.

ayaz786amd · Member

Hi Steve,

The answer of your first question is i have my whole experience relating to UK clients. So, I can serve better in UK.

Unfortunately you are completely misundertstood my words. I havent used the word 'All'. Its your addition. I dont know why some people become very aggressive without understanding what has been said. I have an evidence of what i have said. In many cases clients have paid for bookkeeping and we here redo bank, wages and vat reconciliations. But it doesnt mean that i am talking about all. We have few clients who get awesome work from their bookkeeprs and we spent very little time on year end accounts. My boss is a Uk accountant. How can i say it what you have blamed on me. People with good or bad skills are everywhere. You all are very senior and respectable for me.

Nimac · Senior Member

I work for a client, an indian gentlemen, who owns 3 businesses at present. He has plans to extend that to over 10 in the next year.

He had a meeting with me several weeks ago stating that he would be transfering all bookkeeping to his relative in India. He asked me to train up the bookkeeper in India on his bookkeeeping systems and asked if i would do it.

I initially resisted because i knew i would be doing my self out of a job but he explained it would be going ahead with or without me so reluctantly i agreed purely because i need the money and have been conversing with an indian bookkeeper.

A few things i have come across - things can get lost in translation, confusion does arise at times and frustation can be the result however it has to be said she is doing the job for a lot less than i am being paid.

It is something that sticks in my throat a little as my brother lost his job due to his previous employer moving his job overseas purely because of cost, it seems to be the way of things in the current climate.

Just my tuppence worth.

Rhianrach · Expert

ayaz786amd wrote:

Hi Steve,

I dont know why some people become very aggressive without understanding what has been said.

People become "aggresive" as you put it because you are touting for business in a forum whose members are generally made up of self employed bookeepers trying to make a living out of it, then you come in and try to take business away. If you can't understand why that could possibly be a problem then you need to sit down and have a word with yourself.

ayaz786amd · Member

Hi Nimac,

Different scenerio. I am working in a firm established 8 years ago. We are purely outsourcing firm and even in a recession we survive. All the work comes from UK and we have done here bookkeeping, accounts, vat, payroll and tax returns. All our client are small practice firm in UK. We are growing and now company is in the process of acquiring few practices in Uk. Our clients check our work very strictly in the begning and they dont see any major problem with us.

I want to say that people have different experiences and i found it very successful.

ayaz786amd · Member

My Dear Steve,

God bless you and your business. He may give you more than what you want. And destroy every person who tries to take your business away.

With Love,

Rhianrach · Expert

ayaz786amd wrote:

My Dear Steve,

God bless you and your business. He may give you more than what you want. And destroy every person who tries to take your business away.

With Love,

You never know, I doubt it though.

Dalbir · Senior Member

Best to have qualified UK bookkeepers based in UK to do bookkeeping on behalf of clients.

To reduce costs for clients, best to have good bookkeeping systems (which reduces processing time) and client should use the freed up time to utilise the bookkeepers knowledge or accountants knowledge (if outside the scope of bookkeepers role), via regular meetings.

Ayaz,
Not surprised that you had to correct many UK based bookkeepers work. The reason is because most of the type of small business clients who sends their work offshore is the type who regard bookkeeping as just a bog standard admin role and want to minimise their overheads to the bare bones; so I doubt you inherited or will inherit (through your own business or regular job) much micro and small business work, whose owners/ directors value the contribution of qualified / experienced bookkeepers and accountants.

Dalbir
PS: noticed you are from Pakistan. My condolences to those affected by the floods.

ayaz786amd · Member

Dalbir,

Yes most of the clients have small businesses but i have also done bookkeeping for clients with a turnover of £2 million.

Yes Lot of destruction in our three provinces and people are dying because of lack of basic necssities of life

RobH · Expert

I would like to add my condolences to all those suffering at the moment too.

Rob

Quentin Pain · Senior Member

Ayaz, this is a forum for bookkeepers, rather than 'clients' of bookkeepers. Shouldn't you be targeting small businesses? ie. looking for forums that small business owners use? I don't suppose I will get thanked for that advice, but either you are trying to get outsourced work from the bookkeepers on this forum or you have missed your target market by a margin. I hope that makes sense?

ayaz786amd · Member

yes you right? do you have any idea what to do?

Amanda · Expert

Good evening Shaun,

sorry for delay, been abit hectic with schools hols and work, trying to fit too many hours in to to few a days.

Glad the contract is looking good till xmas, read it on another post.

Thought I'd keep the Avatar, can't decide what to have next anyway!

Anyway back to this business of sending work abroad!

I would like to know why some companies don't take finance very seriously!!!! The company that I know in the earlier post are going to outsource some of their stuff to someone abroad, personally I think they are mad, as the person who its going to go to haven't a clue, which is not good! And before someone on here suggests that I do, its not vesable on my current work commitments, nor would I want it due to other reasons. Also there are just some thats its best to walk away from and this is one of them.

When I say they don't take things seriously, a junior member is currently inputting transactions without knowing the double entry bookkeeping system, and posting lots of things incorrectly on Sage. Then they phone me and wonder why its a mess!!! Unfortunately they just don't understand the IMPORTANCE of good bookkeeping, so the other day when I had a conversation on the phone to find out that wrong codes had been used in the vat element on sage etc etc and I'm sure you can all imagine the rest.

Anyway thats my rant over with now!!!!

Cheers
A

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Amanda,

Don't you dare change that Avatar!!!

Just the sceptic in me here but how do we know that the poster is really who they are from where they say they are?

It could just be some miscreant posting the proverbial "Light the blue touch paper" message.

I'm sure that as soon as the businesses that have outsourced have had their inevitable visit from HMRC and realised that there is nobody there to hold their hand during the visit they will change their minds about the perceived saving.

I know that some larger accountancy practices outsource work but that's a background operation and the clients point of contact is still a person at a desk in the UK who can help out in the eventuallity of a visit.

After saying that did you see that job hunting program last night where they picked up a guy off the street, gave him a haircut and a suit then got him a job in an accountancy practice! Seemed a nice enough lad but if there hadn't been camera's there he wouldn't have even got to an interview.

I was almost shouting at the TV as I know how many people that we have on here who have paid small fortunes often out of reduncancy money or from loans to pick up the skills and still can't get interviews then some kid just says I want to sit behind a desk like an accountant or somefin and the next thing you know he's on £17.5k p.a. with no experience.

grrrr....

semsley · Guru

After saying that did you see that job hunting program last night where they picked up a guy off the street, gave him a haircut and a suit then got him a job in an accountancy practice! Seemed a nice enough lad but if there hadn't been camera's there he wouldn't have even got to an interview.

I was almost shouting at the TV as I know how many people that we have on here who have paid small fortunes often out of reduncancy money or from loans to pick up the skills and still can't get interviews then some kid just says I want to sit behind a desk like an accountant or somefin and the next thing you know he's on £17.5k p.a. with no experience.

grrrr....

Oh Shaun how I agree, I watched the programme and felt exactly the same. How many other well deserving people could have done that job an awful lot better but didn't get the chance and this kid with NO qualifications except D and lower GCSEs (that's a fail in my book, having taught GCSEs about 7 years ago and seen how low the standards were for A) gets a job on £17.5K just because it's for a TV programme. It makes my blood boil. I know of graduates who can't get a job earning that and they have all the student loan debt.

Amanda · Expert

Hi Shaun,

No I missed that programme last night, thats sounds terrible, I know what you mean about paying for our qualifications ourselves, it ain't cheap!

They've already had a visit from the HMRC, so I heard from someone, and they are still totally oblivious to everything, they still think they know best, glad I said no thats all I can say. Some people you just can't help.

I will keep my avatar for abit longer, whats the next theme?

cheers
A

Amanda · Expert

Hi Sheila,

glad I was out last night and missed it, it sounds like it would have made my blood boil as well!!!!

I'm showing my age it was 'O' levels in my day, and then it was a D for a fail etc. So I know what yout mean about the standards are lower in the GCSE's.

A

semsley · Guru

Amanda

It was 'O' levels in my day too (as you can see from my avatar!!!).

When I eventually went into teaching (FE, not school, although we still did GCSEs) I just could not believe the exams and the mark schemes. The 'O' levels we took - mine in the 1960s - were on a par with today's 'A' levels and I kid you not.

The very worst thing about today's education system is the AS and A2 which, apart from the children having no break between GCSE and AS (like we had between O and A level) they are constantly having to take exams. But (oh one should never start a sentence with but biggrin

) they can retake these exams until they get the highest grade of which they are capable which really makes a mockery of the whole thing. That's why there are so many "top" grades and universities find it difficult to differentiate the wheat from the chaff.

Amanda · Expert

Sheila,

I didn't realise they can retake them until they get the grade they are caple of, thats terrible, no wonder the universities are finding it difficult. My eldest is at secondary school, so we are a little way off that at the moment. I must admit at least with the 'O' levels you had to revise like mad and actually know the subject, unlike today.

A

Wella · Expert

Shamus wrote:

After saying that did you see that job hunting program last night where they picked up a guy off the street, gave him a haircut and a suit then got him a job in an accountancy practice! Seemed a nice enough lad but if there hadn't been camera's there he wouldn't have even got to an interview.

A position in forensic accounting no less, with a dubious background too, including dealing (no convictions though)

I also agree that there are plenty of graduates who would no doubt be better suited for the role and if the camera wasn't there he probably wouldn't have got passed security

Having said that, he has been given an opportunity (which many on this forum would give up bits of their anatomy for). What would make my blood boil, is if he wasted it. I had some empathy and understood his comments about "priorities" when he was at school. It was more luck, than academic graft, that I managed to get any O levels. My priorities changed the day I left school, it seems his took a bit longer.

I am far from a liberal supporter of the Hug a Hoody brigade and it was the other character that made me cringe. Having valued himself at £22K!! IMO he was wasn't worth the benefits he was probably claiming. Take them away and I suspect he would accept a lot less.

Off my soap box, and just off out to pillory the local youths now.