My personal view is that the title bookkeeper does not describe what a lot of "bookkeeepers" do. Which is one of the reasons I like the AAT description of Accounting Technician.

In my mind there are three main tiers to the wider term accountancy.

1st level: Bookkeepers, people that do the day to day record keeping for a business, they may also do payroll. They can be employed or self employed and work for any size of business and will supply the necessary information for others to produce final accounts and statutory returns etc.  There are a high number that fall into this catagory and are happy at this level.

2nd level: Accounting Technician, people that cover the role of bookkeeper, prepare management accounts, final accounts and complete statutory returns up to un audited accounts. Will probably do payroll as well. They will probably be self employed and have micro and SME businesses for clients. Being closer to the coal face they will have a good understanding of the business and can sort out problems as they happen, not after the event

3rd level: Accountant, people that generally do not get involved in the day to bookkeeping but will use and interpret the information to produce management reports, final accounts statutory returns, most likely including audited accounts. Services may also include payroll bureau. They will also advice on tax efficiency and other higher levels financial advice. They can be employed, or in practice. If in practice, will probably employ bookkeepers/ accounting techs.

I consider myself 2nd level and feel that I fill a niche. The most common thing I hear is, that accountants are to expensive for the level of business most of my clients have. Bit like using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
I actually dont believe accountants are to expensive, they just may not be the right type of accountancy professional for a lot of the smaller businesses.


Little caveat. These are very broad statements and just my hastily cobbled together opinions, and hopefully do not come across, as anti to any group.

Bill

Hi,

Interesting points here, Wella I'm interested in that you say Accounting Technicians would probably be self employed, most AAT members are employed I thought? Or are you thinking these are non AAT members using this title?

Most ICB bookkeepers offer payroll. Maybe you need to split Level 1 into un-qualified and Certified Bookkeeper?

It is something the ICB is trying to do, first is to try and separate qualified from un qualified, as Kris says, anyone can call themselves a bookkeeper or accountant, which personally I am very against.

I think with franchises you have to be careful who you use. The ICB has come across franchises that sell to any 'bookkeeper' qualified or not. These don't work, and can come across as just an advertising agency. It is also hard to give advice if you have a wide range of standard across your bookkeepers.

The franchises that work are ones that make a point on the standard of bookkeeper they use.

Its something the ICB has been saying for years, and when the ICB was first started it got a lot of support from the then government.

About 4-5 years ago it was thought the MLR would sort this, forcing accountants and bookkeepers to be registered with a professional body.

Unfortunately HMRC stepped in as too many accountants and bookkeepers were not able to meet the required levels and they were worried about mass unemployment or something.

So now the plan it to hit accountants, banks, and small businesses. ICB is building a relationship with FSB (Federation for Small Business) and now has a column in most of their newsletters about using ICB members. Lloyds TSB sponsored the last ICB conference and we are trying to get them to have more involvement, but banks are very big and this will take time.

And accountants as mentioned on one of my other posts, the ICB is trying to build some club/membership thing to encourage integration with the two sectors.

Also don't forget ICB members reading this, tell potential clients that your ICB registered, that it's the hardest bookkeeping body to join, that you have qualifications, insurance, tech and legal support etc etc.

kjmcculloch wrote:

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Maybe Garry can have a rant about it to kick start things :-p

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What happened to October?

kjmcculloch wrote:

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ICBUK wrote:
It is something the ICB is trying to do, first is to try and separate qualified from un qualified, as Kris says, anyone can call themselves a bookkeeper or accountant, which personally I am very against.

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p.s. I do agree with Bill, but correct me if I'm wrong, Bill, but your accounting technicians are not necessarily AAT, but just those with a higher skill level than the basic bookkeeper, am I right?

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Yes Kris I was using the term more as an adjective description of a higher level of bookkeeper, with enhanced skills, rather than the AAT qualification but I also like Tony's Super Bookkeeper (Going to start sewing my logo into my lycra, caped outfit). I seem to recall reading that the ICB are against changing the title bookkeeper, which I agree with but it wouldnt hurt to have a better description for the highest level. As Bob from crunchers was aluding to, the title bookkeeper on it's own, may prevent potential clients from contacting us.

I also agree Kris, that it is good to see a more proactive stance from the ICB (they must keep the momentum going James). To be honest a few months ago, I could have easily jumped ship to the IAB but I am not now.

Peasie, have you signed up for email notification of the newsletter?

Bill

I agree with Bill, Again. I had a heated conversation a short time ago with James and I was seriously considering leaving the ICB, but as I had just renewed my membership I was sticking it out until renewal. But given the latest changes I may stick around for a while, it looks to be starting to become quite a progressive organisation. Even if Garry's rants do annoy me slightly.

Hi,

We aim to get the newsletter out within the first working week of the month. October was delayed by 1 week (making it mid Oct due to the way the dates fall) due to a few of the stories we wanted to get in.

November is being proof read now and should be out in the next couple of days.

With regards to spliting the Level 1 bookkeeper I think I was probably over simplifying it sorry. Probably need 4 levels:

Un-qualified
Sage certificated
Qualified
Certified

Where do you put experienced? Probably aligned with Qualified?

I like the idea of a cape, maybe something to add to ICB merchandise alongside the tie and mug :)

The title bookkeeper is fine, just some people have used an un-qualified bookkeeper and have bad stories to tell. We need to get the point across that the ICB is a whole other league of bookkeeper.

Hi Kris,

I didn't mean that from an ICB point of view, I meant those are the levels currently in this sector. Replace Sage with any software provider.

Ideally there would only be:

ICB Associate
ICB Member
ICB Fellow

But it could be a while before that happens