I don't think you need qualifications for any of the things you list above. I only think qualifications are needed when it comes to companies with a turnover over £5.6 million or £6.5 million. Can't remember which - what's £0.9 million these days. What am I talking about, as you're experienced in audit you're more likely to know the figure than me.

Just need registering with HMRC for MLR.

If you do go with an official body then that's when the restrictions start.

My own opinion is people should need to be qualified - but currently they don't need to be.

Mark,

Anyone can call themselves an accountant, so from your experience, I don't think you've got anything to worry about. It's not like you're an IFA who's got some software!

Would just be more concerned that your private work was OK with your employer. It may be worthwhile just checking with them.

Yep, anyone can call themselves an accountant. A bit grating considering my AAT, then ACCA study then 2 years PQE. I also actually have to have a practising certificate to maintain my membership!

At the moment it is not mandatory to be a member of a professional body.

In fact you are in a better position being unqualified to do all of the above points you mention. Most of the professional bodies will restrict you in some way. One thing to consider though is the MLR registration as you will need to register with HMRC.



The only restriction is the audit requirement, but in any case as a freelancer you are unlikely to be undertaking this work anyway.

Hi Phil,

does make one's blood boil doesn't it that the term accountant isn't protected in law. I went OU, ACCA with an ICB dalyance along the way and the thought that with no expenditure someone can just set up as an accountant really does not seem fair.

That said, one other thing that annoys me is that the most Draconian memberships rules always take precedence so I could not perform many services offered by ICB members because I was also a student with the ACCA.

The whole situation caused me to give up the bookkeeping side of the business and just concentrate on the banking side to support my rather expensive ACCA study habit. My final exams going to be the beast (P2) and just to add to the fun I'm swapping from UK to International streams.

Mark,

the two branches of accountancy that are currently protected in law are Audit and Insolvency. However, all of the bodies are trying to get the profession recognised in it's entirety so I would consider the current situation a glitch that will be resolved.

I note that the ICB is working hard at getting bookkeeping officially recognised. It would be a strange situation indeed if they suceeded in getting the term bookkeeper recognised in law whilst accountant was still not!

Rhianrach wrote:

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Like your needing to be a fully qualified doctor to open a clinic but anyone can perform  brain surgery.

I never realised you could practice accountancy without qualifications, however surely without them no one would want you to do it in the first place, it's almost like a marketing tool being qualified to certain levels and why would you want to go to the effort of learning something without becoming qualified.

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The problem is public perception. If someone says 'I am an accountant' people assume they are qualified.

Just a suggestion but if the government (like the ICB) made PII insurance compulsory in order to give MLR cover then the business would sort itself out as insurance companies would not give PII to anyone who did not have either the experience or the qualifications to work as an Accountant or Bookkeeper.

Hi Mark,

I think that this thread became generalisations rather than specifics (they do have a tendancy to do that on this site!).

For PII insurance as you know the insurance companies ask for either evidence of two years experience or relevant qualifications. Whilst legally you don't actually need PII it's always a good one to have.

With 15 years behind you there is no issue but there are many people who think that without any experience or qualifications they can set up as bookkeepers or worse still accountants.

Just do an internet search and see how many times you come accross websites telling people that with minimal investment they can set up a bookkeeping business!

Reading your original post it sounds to me as though in your case, with your level of experience you just need MLR cover from HMRC. Joining any body will restrict the services that you are allowed to offer.

AAT tends to be good if you want to work for someone else but you already have that side of things in the bag.

ICB / IAB gives MLR cover and cheaper PII insurance via Trafalgar (With the ICB you also get a nice crest to put on your stationary).

These seem to be the most popular amongst bookkeepers who are setting up in business but as I said, you have the benefit of considerable experience so may wish to go forwards without such affiliations.

As mentioned previously through you may find that your contract of employment places restrictions on the services that you can offer outside of your employment. It may also have restrictions on the radious of the practice in which you can have clients for a period after you leave employment with them. Be careful on that one. I know that the restriction of practice clauses are on dodgy legal ground but you could end up spending considerable time and money in court defending your position.

I think that you will find many people on this site become freelance bookkeepers because they cannot get a position in practice and take advantage of the oportunities that opens up. Personally, in your position, rather than looking at making a few quid on the side as a bookkeeper I would be studying ACCA or even ICAEW at the same time as getting your PER signed off so that in five to seven years time you could set up your own Accountancy Practice.

Just a suggestion but you may be missing the best opportunity of your life here.

Would imagine in that context it's Practical Experience Record - vital to getting qualified.

Hi Mark,

yes, the PER is a record of the practical experience that you pick up along the way. You need to have that fully signed off before you can fully become a member of the ACCA but you still need to have two years post qualification experience in order to get a practice certificate.

It used to be an STR (Student Training Record) but that changed when they brought in the new syllabus in 2007.

I can see the ACCA's logic on that last one as what employers would put up with paying for exams and giving people several extra weeks a year in study leave if as soon as they qualified they became the competition.

If you did go self employed ACCA students are only allowed to offer bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll services. You can't give advice at all and you can't tell anyone that you have any link to the ACCA until you are fully qualified.... So in your case, if you went self employed ACCA would not be the way to go. However, if you looked at a long term plan forgetting self employment and looking at a career as a qualified accountant via the ACCA route might be preferable.

Your decision. I know which route that I would take but only you know what is right for you.

Good luck with whichever path you take.

All the best,

Shaun.

P.S. on the audit bit, I know that you would not be persuing that side of things but just for info for anyone else reading this. Unlike the other legs of accountantancy, audit and insolvency work is legally protected.
You can only become an Auditor or insolvency practicioner by being an ACA (membership of ICAEW, ICAI or ICAS), ACCA member or CIPFA member.
Normal practicing certificates do not allow accountants even of the above bodies to perform Audit work. They need the extended practicing certificate which comes only after jumping through additional burning hoops.

Hi James,

But not if they are also a member of another body as the more Draconian rules take precedence.

An ACCA student who is a fully qualified ICB member could not produce draft final accounts unless supervised by a fully qualified accountant.

However, the fully qualified ICB member who is not affiliated with any other group could provide such service.

Seems to be one of the flaws and it's not restricted to ICB. I'm thinking here of the ACCA's own CAT qualification. On passing that one can offer services that one would no longer be permitted to perform if one went on to do the full ACCA professional scheme.

It's just one of those things. There are glitches and inconsistencies in every set of rules and so long as we know them we just learn to work with and around them.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Hi James,

I did speak with the ACCA some time ago about this and was told quite categorically that an ACCA student offering serviceson a freelance basis may not make any mention of their ACCA status as that might confuse clients into believing that they were fully qualified ACCA. Also, the services that the student could offer regardless of other affiliations were bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll.

Now that last one could cause an issue the other way around as under ACCA rules one could offer a payroll service but under ICB rules one could only offer that service after passing an additional exam.

I do agree that the restriction is generally more ACCA than ICB.

Actually, it was only last week that I gave up the fight and handed in my ICB membership as the restrictions were such that I could no longer see any way that I could provide equivalent services to other bookkeepers regardless of my qualification and experience.

One of the real nasty ones in the rules is that as an ACCA student one cannot give advice to clients. That one is really the icing on the cake as who can run a successful bookkeeping business if you cannot advise your clients!

Anyway, I'm back as a banking consultant and doing the final leg of my ACCA. Fingers crossed at some stage post qualification I will finally get to have my own practice but the hopes of being able to build it up along the way fell by the wayside due to the issues of what I was, or more to the point was not allowed to do.

Note that my leaving the ICB was nothing against the ICB. Just that the duel memberships were in conflict over the services that I was able to provide. The ICB membership gave me greater scope but after the years of study towards the ACCA there was no way that I was dropping that one when so close to the final exam. Also, as I also work at quite a high level in banking an ACCA or CIMA qualification is a serious bonus when fighting to win contracts.

Anyway, I'm sure that you can understand the ACCA's stance on this. Why allow students to offer a wide range of services as that would be doing the fully qualified membership out of work.

kind regards,

Shaun.