hey guys, thought this would be quite interesting, Ive seen a job advertised locally, theyre looking for a bookkeeper,must be proficient ( their words) in sage, outlook and excel, part aat qualified or qualified with experience. duties inc 3 bank ac recs,purchase ledger, pre payments and accruals,foreign exchange, vat returns and trial balance. For all this they are offering the princely sum of £8 per hour.
for 15 hrs a week. is it me or is this not a great amount? This is not london payscales as we are south midlands but even tho, crikey if I go self employed I'll be asking quite a bit more than this to do the above stuff. any comments?
The other day I've seen a job advert in Birmingham for the AAT qualified and experienced with good knowleage of Sage and they offered £6.50 per hour :)
I saw a job locally in London (zone 2) £7.8/hr for a bookkeeper they didn't want foreign exchange but payroll and all the usual stuff. Saw it advertised in a few places so called them to see if I could help (thought for what they wanted and what they were paying they wouldn't get anybody!) and they had had over 120 applicants!
It is a buyers market at the moment so most employer/hirer will be able to get someone who is able to do the job a lot cheaper than they could a couple of years ago.
Know a bookkeeper who doesnt charge any less than £20 an hour and she has more work than she can handle. Though think this is the exception rather than the rule at the moment.
I think it has a lot with how you ask, or state your fees. On another forum I have noticed a few ICB members saying they don't accept any less than £20 per hour.
Granted it may half your clients, but your still better off.
Obviously you may want to lower this fee if they are a charity or local club etc, but otherwise you have to remember you are a qualified professional who has professional body fees and insurance premiums to pay. (assuming your a member of a professional body).
Sure they can get someone to enter figures for £7, but if your a professional bookkeeper your not just a data inputter, and you should try and get that point across.
The problem is the term bookkeeper (and even payroll clerk) varies by what it includes, from data inputter, to completing the accounts, full payroll and self assessments etc. So its not just the job title, but the job description you should look at to compare the hourly rate.
At the ICB job vacancy site we get some people who post a job offering £8 per hour, they get a phone call explaining the ICB members are professionals and they should offer more to get any response.
Almost all of them increase their offer quite happily once they understand the difference. Some people just have no idea and start at the very bottom and work upwards.
Just had another re-read of this thread (my post last night was from my phone, so was a little tricky and small to say the least!), and think that some people are responding based on it being a job (employed), but some people think it's self employed. The point made about £20 p/h is surely in respect of self employment, MarkS?
I've already written one rant about charge out rates tonight and I've not had enough wine yet for a second one - but I'm with James. If you have passed professional qualifications and you have relevant experience then you should be valuing your services and charging accordingly. By accepting £8 per hour to do the tasks listed is denigrating what the rest of us are trying to do (thats the royal us, and the royal you rather than anyone specific) and it continues the spiral of potential clients/employers not valuing us as a profession. Job agencies are the same - they want to place candidates with years of Sage experience blah blah at £8.50 per hour. It's an insult really. One huge plus for the ICB is that they are trying to both drive up the industry standards and charge out rates
the more people that are able to do the work the lower the prices that they will be able to command.
For an interesting theory on this refer to Porters five forces model.
And when building a strategy for moving your practice forwards also look at Ansoffs Matrix which quite rightly gives a low price strategy as a means of market penetration.
It's common misconception that management accounting theories apply only to larger entities but the size of the entity is in reality immaterial and one could learn a lot from the likes of Porter and Ansoff and the Boston Consulting Group and many others including the Japanese theorists.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
There are two threads on the go at the moment compaining about rates but without considering the laws of supply and demand.
Or, the relative bargaining power of clients and suppliers, threats from new products and services, threats from new entrants or in fighting amongst the encombant players... And there go the five forces again
Michael Porter, great theorist. Far better than the likes of Johnson, Scholes and Whittington who just stand upon the shoulders of better men but do it so well that the ACCA enforce reading their Exploring Corporate Strategy on you as a set text.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Can't believe how long its been since I studied Porter, think I did it for Cima but much more so for my masters.
Yes a nice fat barrier to entry, like only qualified accountants can complete accounts, would be handy eh?
Even the threat of HMRC penalties and investigations doesn't seem to deter some people.
I have actually thought for a while that unrepresented taxpayers are more likely to have an investigation, using the logic that if faced with a HMRC letter, they are more likely to pay up rather than argue, and go through the stress of an investigation alone.
Don't think so Nick, Your already qualified. I'm still going through the frustration of knowing that I can do it but the examiners not quite agreeing with me.
On your other point I'm actually in the camp of believing that it should only be qualified accountants who are allowed to submit company accounts (Although I'm much more flexible on sole traders books).
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
