Hi Iain,

Sorry, I'm not going to directly answer your questions, as there are other people on here who can give better answers than me (for example, all of my qualifications have been paid for by my employers, so don't know!). However, I would suggest a good approach would be to speak to someone who does it for a living. You will get more of an idea of what is involved on a day to day basis, what skills you need, etc.. and I think you will gleen much more than anyone can answer on here.

Sorry it's short and sweet, but hope it helps.

Hi Iain,

welcome to the forum.

1) With no experience try the Open University introduction to bookkeeping as a starter. It's course B190 and on successful completion you will be exempt from sitting the IAB exams so can apply directly for membership of the IAB. Current price is £310 but it goes up soon to £330. Trust me, that's very reasonable for quality courses and you would not be doing the course alone. Via the OU portal you would be able to talk to dozens of others going through the same experience at the same time.

2) AAT will set you up if you want to be employed but for the most part from a self employed perspective clients don't care who your supervisory body is. The ICB crest on your stationary can be quite impressive but on the whole I would say that either IAB or ICB would be as far as you need to go for self employment.

3) Very good question. Personally I couldn't make enough money out of bookkeeping to give up the day job but many do. Then again I do have a particularly good day job. Whatever you think that your minimum first year turnover will be cut it in half and aim for that. By the second or third year word of mouth will have started bolstering your client numbers. At some stage you will hit the wall where it is not possible to hold down a full time job and run the business at which stage you will seriously need to do your sums as to what gives you the better return.

4) You will never, ever stop learning! The courses are just the beggining. The OU course would take around 24 weeks with a commitment of around 10 hours study per week (can be completed in as little as 12 weeks but I would go for learning the subject over a longer period rather than just learning to get through the exams)... Ignore what they say on the OU site about it only taking around 100 hours overall. I did B680 which was supposed to be 15 hours a week and it ended up nearer to 40 hours a week for about 50 weeks!

5) I've not taken the same route as most so my costs are not representative of what your will be (mine are around £6000 so far but I'm more biased towards the accountancy than the bookkeeping side of things). As mentioned above. £310 will start you off with an OU course which will give you IAB exemption. It would also set you up to take the ICB manual exams without any further study.

A couple of books to start you off would be Mastering Accounting Skills by Margaret Nicholson and Mastering Book-keeping skills by Dr. Peter Marshall. The pair should cost no more than £20 on Amazon.
When you get serious about this you will amass a small (or not so small) library.
You will also need business software such as VT Transaction+ and 12pay. Many clients use Sage or Quickbooks so it would help if you were able to use one of those and certainly if you go the ICB route you will need to pass exams in computerised bookkeeping using commercially available packages. Don't forget to factor that cost intyo your calculations.

Good luck with your studies and don't worry at all about asking questions. Hope that we save you a bob or two and a bit of anguish that many of us have suffered along the way.

All the best,

Shaun.

Hi Iain,

welcome to the forum.

You can join two bodies, or more.

The ICB see the B190 as an introduction to bookkeeping as Shamus said, you need more than it to start self employed. Try looking at http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/where_to_study/distance_learning some of the providers give the ICB Level 1 Certificate in Basic Bookkeeping course by itself which is a good introduction too and leads nicely onto the other levels.

The B190 will get you an exemption from the ICB Level 1 so either course can get you the same result. The ICB says you need the Level 2 as well before you can become self employed.

Hi Frauke,

I did mention about the IAB in my post.

I've just taken a look at the OU B190 and it sounds as though taking that takes you straight to IAB membership. Hope that the OU don't mind me cutting and pasting this from their site :

Introduction to bookkeeping and accounting (B190) is accredited by the International Association of Book-keepers (IAB). The course provides exemption from both their Level 2 Certificate in Book-keeping and also their Level 3 Diploma in Accounting and Advanced Book-keeping. Therefore on successful completion of B190 students will be able to apply to become Members of the IAB.

James has also confirmed above that it gives exemption from the level 1 ICB.

Personally on this one I think that the ICB has it about right as whilst B190 is an excellent introductory course (used to be the give away course that you had to do before doing B680, the certificate in Accountancy) I don't think that it should give full exemption as it doesn't really prepare you for setting up the way that ICB, IAB or AAT would if done directly.

Then again who amongst us is ever prepared for everything that gets thrown at us, espechially right at the begining!

For others reading the £20k line, don't forget that out of that you will need to factor in memberships, insurances, software licences, IT costs, stationary, continued professional development and transport costs before you get to the the amount that you can take a salary out of. Always think about the bottom line, not just the top one.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Hi Steve,

it was the line burried in there somewhere related to whether you could join the ICB and IAB.

I can't see the point in that one myself. More common ones would be (ACCA or CIMA) and (ICB or IAB) where one is a student of the former and full practicing member of the latter.

That said, many ICAEW members are also ACCA as you can convert over but you have to keep your original affiliation (and pay both memberships).

I think that at the end of the day if you want to give people your money there are always more than enough willing recipients.

All the best,

Shaun.

Shamus wrote:

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Hi Steve,

it was the line burried in there somewhere related to whether you could join the ICB and IAB.

I can't see the point in that one myself. More common ones would be (ACCA or CIMA) and (ICB or IAB) where one is a student of the former and full practicing member of the latter.

That said, many ICAEW members are also ACCA as you can convert over but you have to keep your original affiliation (and pay both memberships).

I think that at the end of the day if you want to give people your money there are always more than enough willing recipients.

All the best,

Shaun.

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Hi Shaun

As always I mss bits Shaun, being an AAT devotee I have to look at James' posts and wonder if it's all about sales. (I slipped an irony in there did you see:) )

Surely it would be better if all the people that wanted to undertake bookkeeping as an extra income were informed that the further you can prepare the books the smaller the cost to the client for accounting fees that are sure to be more per hour than bookkeeping fees and therefore cause you to become more cost efficient.

It would be nice if on a forum where people are looking for advice they were actually given the full and proper advice when it comes to studying, not just the cheapest option. The AAT albeit more expensive is in my view a better option bacause you can offer a much better service in the end. I'm only part way through but I could offer services upto P+L and Balance sheet and a quick google later means I could offer a good quality P+L and B/S by the end of this year I could also offer much more in terms of projections, the only thing I wouldn't offer is advice on tax which is why you retain a quality accountant. Blah blah blah ............. rant over :)

 

ICBUK wrote:

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Rhianrach wrote:

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being an AAT devotee I have to look at James' posts and wonder if it's all about sales.

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Well that's to be expected, hopefully you find my posts helpful and not sales

I do however try to give a balanced view, even linking to the other bodies sites where appropriate.

However, as Shaun said, my comment was in response to Iain asking if you could only join the IAB or ICB, and not both.

 

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Helpful if I wanted to join the ICB yeah. However this is supposed to be an impartial forum............................ unless the ICB is funding it of course.              :)

 

Shamus wrote:

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Hi Steve,

You know me, if I think that something is amiss I'm always the first one to be most vocal but in this instance I find myself jumping to James's defence.

I've actually found James's posts to be really useful. Can't remember which past post it was but he had me as a convert when he advised someone that AAT would be the best route for them showing that even though he's here representing the ICB he is actually quite impartial in his approach.

Mind you, after saying that I'm a convert I have to admit that I've actually left the ICB but that was purely down to the conflict between what I was allowed to do under my ACCA flag compared to what I am allowed to do under the ICB one. So nothing at all against the ICB. Just that the restrictions placed on me by the ACCA rendered the whole business model untenable as I wasn't allowed to go past trial balance or give any business advice and who can make any real money at a level far behind what ICB/IAB membership alone would permit.

As it is I've gone back to the banking consultancy side of my business to support my rather expensive study habit but I'll be back to bookkeeping / accountancy once my qualifications get me past the restrictions.

I may need to swap out of the ACCA, (maybe to CIMA) after passing the finals as I just can't see where I can get the required three years post qualification practice experience from in the current market in order to get an ACCA practice certificate. However, I'm too darn close and too pig headed to admit I'm beaten by the job market and ACCA rules to move to another body before proving that I can pass this darn thing.

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I'm not saying they can't be helpful just pointing out the fact that more often than not they promote the ICB rather than advise people of the implications, pros and cons of the various different routes that can be taken and where they can lead.

More often than not it's all about what James can do for you rather than what the other providers can do. As I say it's supposed to be impartial and I often wonder if this forum is now funded by the ICB with the advice given and the people banned for any opposition.

The ICB may be a good route to being a bookkeeper but not necessarily the best route and I think James needs to see this. Fair enough he has given advice contrary to his standing in a commercial company, once, throw a dog a bone and all that but more often than not it's all about a person asking for advice and James jumping on the sale.

Great that you are doing well with your exams, the CIMA route is something I would like to try ............ when I can afford it :)

 

Hi Iain,

don't worry too much about the politics. I actually get on really well with Steve but nobody agree's all of the time on every matter. On the whole we're a freindly enough bunch on here... Although some of the tax debates on here have become quite fun.

I think that you are mixing up the IAB and ICB exams. The OU will take you straight to IAB memberbership. It will however only take you to the ICB level 1 manual which is not enough to get a practicing certificate through them.

We come now to what's right as opposed to what's shortest.

The shortest route would seem to be via the OU and straight to IAB membership. But as quite rightly identified in earlier posts that really isn't enough for you to set up in business as it's missing out important parts of the IAB study.

Another option besides bodies such as the IAB and ICB is to think about bolstering your skills when you get to that stage with a SAGE qualification. You can very much buy a course in a box with a 180 day trial version of a slightly cut down version of their software (not all the less used reports are available in the training versions of their software).

One thing to note here is that almost all of the supervisory bodies require you to pass their exams but they do not require you to attend courses. (AAT is the exception here). All that you need to be able to do is apply yourself to your studies and you should be able to advance your knowledge and skill without the expense of a training provider.

I would however still advise doing a course such as the open university with other like minded people which will very much get the ball rolling for you to then build upon yourself.

If I had to give an A-B-C guide to get from no knowledge of the subject matter to a business it would be :

1) Buy and read the suggested books

2) Do Open University course B190

3) Join a supervisory body (ICB or IAB, either is fine) and take their exams even if the OU course gives you exemptions. Do not however pay for any other training on the manual side than that given by the OU.

There is enough repetition in the above stages to drive home all of the basics, the rest you pick up along the way.

How long will it take?... How long is a piece of string.

Some people take to the subject matter and love it. Others never quite fully understand it. More than a few have spent small fortunes with training providers and come out of it with little more than a smaller bank balance. That really is very much why I suggest reading the books first.

I appreciate fully that this is one confusing minefield of choices to get lost in. Take the wrong turn and you end up spending a load of money only to be restricted in the services that you can offer.

Don't forget also that sometimes the supervisory bodies do move the goal posts so advice which is valid today may be completely wrong a month down the line.

The ICB had a major shake up early last year. ACCA had one in 2007. AAT had one last June.

Good luck and keep reading the posts on here as you tend to get the inside track pretty quick from our regular contributors which as you've noticed now includes representatives of some of the supervisory bodies and training providers.

All the best,

Shaun.

Ha! Just bought Mastering Accounting Skills By: Margaret Nicholson for 1p!!

Hi James,

please don't take that comment as representative of the general feeling from the majority of people on this site.

I for one am very glad to have you on board.

Your being on this site has done great things for the ICB standing which was quite damaged by the way the changes to practicing members were implemented last year. I'm thinking here about different people being told different things dependant upon who at the ICB they spoke with. If you had been on the site as a first point of contact then things could has progressed an awful lot smoother with less pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth than actually transpired.

People will always have issues with their supervisory bodies (HLC still being a preferred ICB training provider after the horror stories of their sales techniques they employ I think being the main ICB bugbear on here).

I've had a fair few differences of opinion on here myself. In this instance I would just let it go as it would be a travesty to lose either yourself or Steve from being regular contributors on here.

At the end of the day in one of your posts you did tell someone to consider the AAT which to my mind won a million brownie points for the ICB.

Keep up the good work and thanks for the time that you spend on here giving the advice that you have.

All the best,

Shaun.

Sorry, but if i may be a pest once more, what is the difference between The AAT Level 2 Award in Bookkeeping (ABC), and the OU cert in book-keeping (B190). I only ask as one the other threads was quite complementary about ABC, and its only £175 for course materials. Is the 'result' the same in terms of qualification and exemptions? Which is better?