I'm just starting up a new business as a bookkeeper so wondered if I could get a little bit of advice. I'm currently ACCA qualified and working in industry (so don't have a practising certificate), I've contacted the ACCA regarding what I can and can't do and they've told me that I can do basic bookkeeping up to TB and payroll. What I can't see from the info they sent is if this applies to sole traders and Ltd companies, is anyone else in a similar position?
I have no desire to work in practice as for family reasons I need to be at home more often going forward but would like to use my qualifications as far as i can. Would qualifiying under the ICB allow me to provide more services?
I have been running my own bookkeeping business as a practising AAT member for 6+ years now and am in my final year studying ACCA. Through my business I am restricted to do basic bookkeeping up to TB and also payroll which I do for both sole traders and Ltd companies in line with the ACCA rules.
I also work for a small accountancy firm two days a week where the partner is my mentor and this allows me to spread my wings and do other things under his direct supervision.
Good luck with your business. Please do let me know if I can help in any way..
Personally I don't do self assessments within my own business. This is because all but one of my bookkeeping clients are ltd companies so when I pass the TB over to their accountant it makes sense that the accountant does their tax returns too.
My other client is a partnership and again their accountant does the tax returns for all the partners alongside the partnership accounts.
I'm not quite fully qualified (still got the beast (P2) to go) but this is something that I have looked into and answered quite a few posts on.
On the ICB question it is the more Draconian rules that take precedence so if you took the ICB exams then the things that you would be able to do under your ICB banner you would be restricted from doing by your ACCA membership!
Note that the ICB don't recognise ACCA qualifications for exemptions! I know, that came as a real shock to me as well when they hit me with that one. There have been numerous posts on here in relation to the ICB's belief that accountants cannot do bookkeeping. James from the ICB who is now on this site has done wonders for their reputation over the last few months and has stated that if one has passed paper F3 within the last two years then it would be recognised but unfortunately that's about it. Who on passing the full professional level did F3 within two years of completion!
One that you missed from your list of services that you can offer was VAT. You are allowed to do that as well.
Back to the ICB. One idiosyncracy there is that your ACCA membership allows you to offer payroll services that if you signed up with the ICB you would not be able to offer until you had passed an additional exam.
I did actually try running a bookkeeping business for almost two years but found that client wanted more than the restriction would allow me to provide. Personally, even as a bookkeeper I don't think that it is possible to offer services without offering advice to clients as they want to know if they are doing things right but under your ACCA banner you can't tell them even though it seems a dereliction of duty not to.
As a result I've closed down the bookkeeping arm of my business and resigned from the ICB. That's nothing against the ICB who are an excellent organisation. It's just that the restrictions placed on what I could do by the ACCA made the bookkeeping business untenable and the only reason for being with the ICB was to support my bookkeeping business.
I can completely relate to what your saying about no desire to work in practice for family reasons as I'm a single parent with sole custody myself and it makes trying to get the required experience even more of a nightmare. However, as Sarah touched upon. Would it be possible for you to gain supervised experience in a self employed capacity so being able to work outside of conventional office hours.
I'm just trying to think of ways that you would be able to get those two years post qualification experience in order to get hold of that elusive practicing certificate.
I'm sure however that like myself. After suffering years of study towards passing the ACCA exams there is no way that you would ever give up those letters for another more situation freindly qualification.
If you find any ways around things that we haven't spotted please don't be shy of posting any help and advice that you can on here.
Good luck and always be aware that there are people on here to give a bit of moral support when you need it.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I contacted the ACCA to confirm what I could do while I was an ACCA student (and up to getting a practising certificate - two years additional experience AFTER you qualify!! - same rules still apply until then!) and was told bookkeeping up to TB, VAT and Payroll.
But, and here's the killer, I was not permitted to actually file VAT or PAYE returns for clients as that would be seen as being in public practice. I could not register as an agent with HMRC and remain a student, a violation which would result in disciplinary action!!!!! No accounts of any kind in any circumstances, which they interpreted as ALL year end accounts be they sole trader or whatever and any form of management accounts. No advice must be given in any way! All this is public practice, therefore banned!!
Basically, even a bookkeeping business seems out if you're an ACCA student or don't have a practising licence!! My advice therefore is to be really careful setting up a bookkeeping business if you have anything to do with the ACCA and don't have a practising certificate.
Has made me think again! Only done a couple of exams so I think I might resign and focus on building up a business myself.
G
-- Edited by GinnyBee on Saturday 2nd of April 2011 07:35:41 PM
that's even more info than they normally give out on the phone and really useful to know.
I knew the bit about two years after qualification but the VAT and Payroll advice that you got pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of anyone thinking that they can work as a bookkeeper whilst a student of the ACCA despite the way that regulation 8 reads.
Its also got me thinking that when I have passed my final exam I'll be condemned to perpetual Continued Professional Development (CDP) whilst still not being able to make any return on the investment.
Personally I'm way too far down the ACCA path to change now but if you've only recently passed the first couple Ginny you would be able to get some exemption from ICB exams as they give level I exemption based on passing F3 within the last two years. That might be a good restart point for you if self employed bookkeeper is the way that you want to go and then build on that. Maybe with ATT or CIMA?
Good luck with whatever path you choose,
all the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
that's even more info than they normally give out on the phone and really useful to know.
I knew the bit about two years after qualification but the VAT and Payroll advice that you got pretty much puts the nail in the coffin of anyone thinking that they can work as a bookkeeper whilst a student of the ACCA despite the way that regulation 8 reads.
Its also got me thinking that when I have passed my final exam I'll be condemned to perpetual Continued Professional Development (CDP) whilst still not being able to make any return on the investment.
Personally I'm way too far down the ACCA path to change now but if you've only recently passed the first couple Ginny you would be able to get some exemption from ICB exams as they give level I exemption based on passing F3 within the last two years. That might be a good restart point for you if self employed bookkeeper is the way that you want to go and then build on that. Maybe with ATT or CIMA?
Good luck with whatever path you choose,
all the best,
Shaun.
Hi Shaun
Detailed information like that took me three weeks of emails totalling about 6 each way. The information given is from the Technical Committee who are in charge of the ACCA rule book, I asked them to clarify what they meant in the regulations (which I see you posted elsewhere) as I wanted to make sure what was correct - what can I say, I like to be sure!
I think the rules should be a little more explicit, people may think on reading them they can do all VAT work etc andend up getting in trouble.
Thank you for the advice too. I think I'm ging to resign from ACCA which I started while employed in an Accountancy Practice (self funded too, but cutting my losses). I am AAT qualified so I will apply for their Member in Practice licence and go down that route!
Remember everyone - Self emlpoyed bookkeeper OR ACCA student NEVER both!!
think that your definitely right on the never both advice!
I'm not 100% on the CIMA rules and am begining to wonder even if I felt I was wether such is really the case after your clarification of the ACCA rules!
I really don't know what's happening with CIMA. They're leaving CCAB and I don't know hoow that will affect the way that other institutions regard their qualification as I'm sure that there's some repurcussions to come from that parting of ways yet and I'm just hoping the it's not students and qualified members who are the one's who get hurt in the crossfire.
The other one that I was thinking of for you was ATT rather than AAT as a tax qualification combined with the ICB qualification seems complimentary for self employed bookkeeping then it could also be used as a stepping stone to CTA if you move back into practice and want to persue the chartered tax advisor route which is the equivalent of ACA.
Without something like the full ACCA or ATT qualification you can't even get acceptance to study with the Chartered Institute of Taxation so if that's something that you wanted to go for eventually ATT might be something worth looking at now.
Overnight you've actually had me thinking whether even where I am with the ACCA qualification is this just going to now act as a permanent drain on my resources whilst denying me any direct return! Maybe I gave up the wrong one when I dropped ICB earlier this year!
I did actually look at AAT last year but was thinking of it from the perspective of post ACCA revision. At the time I was told by Premier Training that on the back of my ACCA studies and the AAT test I would be able to start AAT at Technician level (that would be the level 4 diploma now).
Maybe I should just drop ACCA and go down that route! Or maybe finish ACCA and then review who I belong to as even if ACCA won't allow me to work under their banner they can't take away the fact that I passed all of their exams which is enough for the banking side of my work (Passing ACCA doesn't necessarily get you the job but it gets you to interview ahead of those who don't have it).
All the best Ginny.
Talk soon,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thanks everyone for their replies and the info given. I think I'm totally confused as to what the best way forward for me now would be. I definitely want to still go ahead with my bookkeeping business but am wondering despite all the sweat and tears it took to get my ACCA qualification whether I should look to resign and concentrate on the fact I do have have 17 years worth of experience to draw from and at least that way I would be able to provide more services.
I've contacted the ACCA again to clarify about the payroll and VAT as I'm not sure whether the rules are different for students than members (I would think not).
This time last year I was intending to do ACCA. My background was in banking and after a 10 year career break to have my children, it seemed the perfect way to get a first class qualification and self employed career that would fit around the family. I had decided that I want to be able to offer full accountancy services to small and medium sized businesses, so it seemed like the best qualification to get.
However I then discovered the restrictions and to cut a long story short, decided against ACCA. I have currently got the full range of ICB qualifications. I'm going to do Level 4 as soon as it's available and then probably ATT (I might do AAT or IFA, too, depending on what exactly ICB Level 4 will enable me to offer).
Anyway the point of my post is this....what exactly is it that you want to be doing? What servces do you want to be able to offer? It may well be that you will be able to get to where you want to be without needing ACCA. For me, I have no desire to go into audit. I'm really enjoying working with small businesses and certainly my experience so far is that I can make this a very profitable business, without the need to get the qualifications to work for £150 per hour, or whatever it is that chartered accountants charge.
Do bear in mind that completing the ACCA exams does not mean you are qualified in the sense of ACCA membership. You also have to show practical experience against certain competencies and that can be hard to get outside a regular accountancy job which includes a bit of breadth. If you want to earn £150/hour don't bother with bookkeeping. Depends what your priorities are. If you are an older person with passion to have your own business then ACCA will not be a good option and you will want to check out other ways of getting trained, earning while you learn and quickly.
If you want £150 per hour I think arms dealing, drug dealing or running a prostitution ring might be better options! The accountants in practice that I know tend to be in the £35 to £45 per hour bracket.
On the ACCA front I'm in the position where I've got all of the pre qualification experience to get the letters but stand next to no chance of getting the post qualification experience to get the practice certificate.
I'm too close to passing to swap out now but once I've got the letters and another bit of paper for the trophy wall I'm thinking that unless the ACCA change their requirements (highly unlikely) the only use for my studies will be to gain exemptions from the exams of another body.
CIMA don't to my mind give enough exemptions for the ACCA qualification but I know that I can go straight to AAT level 4 from where at least it's only one year in a relevant position to get to MAAT.
Wish that this site had been around when I first started out as all I had to go on was the websites of the various bodies which really wasn't enough to make a balanced decision as to which route to pursue.
I will say that whilst I think that from getting to practice ACCA was not the wisest choice for me, but from a learning perspective I think that the qualification is absolutely second to non (just wished that I could remember without having to refer back to my books everything that I have learnt but sometimes I think that my brain just isn't big enough for this).
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
