Just writing this message for other people's views on education. In this day and age where jobs are scarce, and you have to change career to go in search of a better job. Do you think education is going down in terms of getting the right information, you pay large amounts to go to college, the tutor waffles on for 3 hours, just reading from a text book which you have to buy, then after the end of each session he or she gives you the work to do at home these study books just give you enough information to pass the required exams, but surely in the real world you just need that extra information to cover different scenario's that will surely crop up. These new QCF qualifacations are just random multiple choice questions, which I am sure do test your knowledge, but I think the good old exams that cover a work based scenario that flow on from the beginning to the end covering all aspects of the subject are better to test your knowledge. Is it just all about money and statistics nowadays, makes me wonder qualfications nowadays are just conveyor belt driven. Give me back the good old days when education was education.
I have had teaching experience, and have to say that in most disciplines, students are taught to the test. In other words, they are not taught the subject but what is needed to pass the exam.
I think you should still have faith in education - my personal experience is that University education is really not about pass exams (although you have to pass in order to gain the qualification so you can proof yourself to others), however it is really about teaching you learning skills and helping you recognize yourself, and this is the real value and money can't buy. The ability you learned and developed would benefit you for the rest of your life.
I have had teaching experience, and have to say that in most disciplines, students are taught to the test. In other words, they are not taught the subject but what is needed to pass the exam.
One of the reasons I left the job
Bill
Same here Bill, I taught several subjects in FE (manual book-keeping, computerised book-keeping, business admin and communication, IT (from beginners to level 3) and hated the teaching to the test but it was all down to funding - which was paid in three stages - recruitment, retention and achievement. The worst was "computers for beginners" generally to the third age who were "forced" to learn databases which they would never use and spreadsheets which they would rarely use when all they wanted was to learn how to switch on, off email and a bit of wordprocessing.
I left in 2005 due to that and the amount of, to me, unnecessary paperwork to satisfy Ofsted/ALI.
I do still like the teaching though but would never do it through a college or training centre.
I've just done a Foundation Degree and it felt like a year long advertisement to do the next year. The quality of the qualification was measured by the fact that one month into the course we were informed that we were guaranteed a pass simply by attending the lectures. I got good marks as I soon realised the length of a bibliography was more worthy than the content of the assignments. All students were post AAT and most agreed that the AAT was more practical and beneficial in the working environment. As mentioned by a previous poster the learning skills gained in PDP have proved useful and can inspire confidence. Overall it was not an experience I enjoyed. I will go back for the honours degree but will eventually goo down a more practical route with a body such as the ATT.
I've just done a Foundation Degree and it felt like a year long advertisement to do the next year. The quality of the qualification was measured by the fact that one month into the course we were informed that we were guaranteed a pass simply by attending the lectures. I got good marks as I soon realised the length of a bibliography was more worthy than the content of the assignments. All students were post AAT and most agreed that the AAT was more practical and beneficial in the working environment. As mentioned by a previous poster the learning skills gained in PDP have proved useful and can inspire confidence. Overall it was not an experience I enjoyed. I will go back for the honours degree but will eventually goo down a more practical route with a body such as the ATT.
The other thing with all qualifications is that they are reviewed every three years - gotta keep moving the goalposts and keep people in employment changing everything. Moi a cynic ?
I guess it's like most things in that it's service led by 'performance' more than actual quality. An off topic example, I have started a Bursar job in a school a few weeks back and upon reading the policies and procedures left by the previous post holder, I got into a little panic as to how I was going to fit everything into a 38 hour week let alone term time, plus the site manager is waiting to get you out at 4pm (not the usual 6:30pm finish I'm used to). I soon realised that more emphasis was put into 'how' to run a finance/admin system than actually doing it. There were three printed purchase orders involved in running a paperless procurement system all signed and filed by the Head. There was also great emphasis on approving the authorisation of invoices yet no importance put upon checking the prices or delivery of goods, or the checking of aged debt. I've streamlined everything down and have a good system going that the auditor has recently remarked upon, although the admin staff of 20+ years still don't understand why I record Income in the budget and not just expenditure (This may change now that public sector org's will have to have more responsibilities for correlating performance/income related to expenditure). I've worked in public sector for 75% of my working life but gained more from the Private Sector. With hindsight, I feel that if I'd got a degree, gone into the public sector and wasn't in any way exposed to the 'real' world, I would be in a better position career wise. Looking at the glass half full, I have the nouse from small business private experience to buy me time in a new job to gain a footing and then build on that.
As per the subject title, I will be going SE in August and if (lucky) enough to do well in a few years, and I had an ICB/IAB/AAT potential employee with experience and looking to improve and further their practical knowledge or a 1st Degree Honours candidate, I'd go for the real life qualification of life that ICB.IAB/AAT, etc. I will never forget having to show a degree candidate how to write a cheque as he had never done one but was more qualified than me. As a contra to that, I was writing personal cheques for a warehouse colleague in his early twenties as he couldn't write and got stressed at the thought of his workmates finding out. He sorted himself in the end but both situations coincided which was a little strange!
-- Edited by DeanoFTM on Friday 20th of May 2011 11:54:00 PM
-- Edited by DeanoFTM on Friday 20th of May 2011 11:55:31 PM
I know what you mean but it's difficult to generalise when people are so different.
When I was a senior management consultant with one of the top consultancy firms I was one of the few (actually, I think that I might have been the only one) who got there by the experience rather than through the accelerated promotion route from a degree.
I was only allowed to employ people from Uni, not from school even though that was the route that I had come from (via a nationalised industry which no longer exists).
Each year we had a major intake from the milk run and I found that there were extreme variances in the capability of new starters so I don't think that one can just write off all people who came from the Uni route when thinking about taking on trainee's.
On the public Vs Private sector debate, the BBC recently reported that 70% of employers would not under any circumstances contemplate taking anyone on from the public sector regardless as to their previous experience.
Again I think that this is a perception thing as again with my consultants hat on I controlled the installation of IT systems for four local governments. Working with the people on the ground floor you do see much of the mentality that has given Public service workers such a bad name, such as believing that sickness entitlement is an extension of the holiday entitlement.
I've actually had someone tell me that they can take holiday and be paid as they still had x sick days and x holiday days owing to them so they take the holiday as their sick days then get paid for the holiday days as they had not used their entire entitlement! That was some time ago so don't know if such is still the case but it's more the attitude that such is their entitlement than that the system allowed such practice to happen that got to me especially coming from an environment where you could either take holidays or promotion!
However, I'm not going to slate public sector workers in general as I've also seen very devoted and capable staff who went above and beyond the call in order to ensure that the systems were implemented on time and to budget (even putting in overtime at no charge). It just seems to me that those who play the system get the rest a bad name.
Like yourself, one day I hope to have my own practice where I will be able to give an opportunity to mature ICB and IAB people who love the subject rather than the money. (I find that if you love the former the latter will follow but if you love the latter only, you are next to useless to a business).
I say mature there as at the moment it seems that when you hit 40 you might as well forget applying to any company for work so self employment ends up as the only option. Self employment though is not right for everyone and the people being put out to graze are often those with the experience of life and business that clients need.
Personally I have no issue with people who were previously employed by local government or who have a degree provided that I felt they had the right attitude and outlook for my business (if you're sitting with a client and it hits the time that you normally go home you don't just get up and leave them as their times up!... Yes, I've really seen that happen).
Back to the subject at hand. Hate to say it but people get jobs based on going to university not because of what uni teaches them (which until lecturers are ex successful (emphasis on that word!) business people rather than those who have only the theory or have failed in business, then Uni studies will continue to lack any real relevance to business) but Uni is a way of business filtering out the people that they don't want. Going to Uni means that you are either likely to come from money or the student and their family has fought tooth and nail to better their prospects.
I feel really sorry for those who could do the job probably better than those who are given the opportunity but in business now it seems that aptitude tests available to all are something that has been filed under ancient history.
Business looks at graduates from the perspective that half of the recruitment process has been done for them by the education system. Graduates are taken on in large numbers then enrolled immediately in more relevant studies such as ACCA or CIMA. Those who don't make the grade are flushed out of the system but all too often such is not because they lack the intelligence to do the professional qualifications but rather because university has prepared them for regurgitation of rote learning but not application of knowledge.
In an environment where so many lose their jobs due to failing even one professional exam is there any surprise that training companies are geared towards getting student through exams rather than really learning the subject matter.
I'm of the belief that real learning can only be acquired at the pit face rather than in class. Once you are in a business all that really matters for moving onwards, upwards (or to another company) is experience.
Ooh, that turned into a bit of a war and peace didn't it!
sure that there's enough contentious statements in there to keep this thread going for a while!
All the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
