Hi all. First time on here - hello! I'm a member of the Institute of Financial Accountants and a Fellow of the Institute of Certified Bookkeepers and also of the Federation of Tax Advisers.
Want to pick your brains, if I may.
I have dealings with a local accountant and have carried out some work for him in the past for which I've invoiced him. We are friends as well as colleagues and I've known him for about three years. He is in his late sixties and suffers from Parkinsons.
He's gone away for a couple of weeks to the sun and asked me to complete an online corporation tax return for him while he was away and he gave me his agent's login etc, so as you can see he trusts me.
Anyway, I also do the payroll for one of his other clients and today she called me up to say that she wanted to change accountants as she didn't think this chap was up to the job because of his illness and that her accounts were due at CoHouse on 30 June and she was worried that they wouldn't get there on time. She requested that I do them for her.
Do you think it would be OK to say to her that I'll prepare them in this chap's absence, as a sort of sub-contractor of his, and that I'll get him to charge her and pay me? My plan, if it's feasible in terms of his return date, would be to discuss the accounts with him before submission but, if not feasible, to submit them to CoHouse and bring him up to date later.
I'm kind of assuming that, as someone he already sub-contracts to, he would be happy for me to do it. My only concern is that we haven't had the chance to discuss it.
Just to clarify from the client's perspective, he was late last year submitting accounts and she incurred fines. She has also attempted to alert him to the need to get the accounts in on time this year. It would appear that his illness is taking its toll.
She's also not unknown to me. A) She's an old school friend of my daughter's and B) she is currently a client, albeit for payroll only. She has only come to me because she is concerned to get her accounts done on time. She is also prepared to go down the route I suggested of me preparing the accounts under a sub-contract to the accountant and to have a proper discussion about the situation going forward with him and myself. She's not, IMHO, being underhanded, but naturally does not want to incur more fines.
-- Edited by Mad Liz on Monday 13th of June 2011 03:59:27 PM
Welcome to the forum! Thats quite a collection of qualifications you hold, puts my lowly GCEs and A Levels to shame.
Personnally I would try and speak to the accountant to discuss this with him first if possible. I think it also depends on what work you've previously completed for the accountant. If you've already completed year end jobs for him then it would not be as much of a problem as if you've never done accounts before.
As a subcontractor you should be covered by your accountants PII scheme to complete the work. A major concern would be that you'd be signing off accounts (abbreviated ones at least) in the name of the firm, and depending on the accountants institute I'm not sure if that is allowable.
Another issue might be that you do the work and the accountant refuses to pay for your time as there was no agreement in place?
If you decided to take the client on yourself you may have trouble getting professional clearance in time to complete the accounts.
Stuart
-- Edited by Stuartbham on Monday 13th of June 2011 04:08:02 PM
__________________
Stuart
Birmingham City FC - Blues is my religion St Andrews is my church
Speaking to the accountant is not possible as he is out of the country at the moment.
As for work done for him before, I've not done statutory accounts for him but am well practiced at doing them and he has certainly seen some of my work.
As for not paying me it is (a) unlikely and (b) in that case the client would pay me.
A real tough one. I can understand, as I have often had new clients come to me because the previous accountant has been late or made mistakes. When the accountants have been late, and the client was fined - the accountant always reimbursed the fine to the client as it is something that a client can claim against PII - which very few accountants would want.
But I have never contracted work from any of them.
If you aren't sure you could always contact the IFA to ask for their advice. Thats what the Instititue is for!
Your subject title is 'Ethical question' and I'm sorry to say that from the information you've provided I don't believe it would be ethical to take on the work without first speaking with the accountant. I'm aware that he is out of the country and therefore unobtainable, however I don't believe that you should or could take on the work without formal agreement.
I totally agree with Frauke in that you should discuss this with the Institute for clarification and not make the decision on your own.
It may be possible to prepare the work ready for his return but you would have to accept the risk that you may not be paid for this and if the situation was not dealt with diplomatically he could take offence and it could jeopardise your working arrangement.
Sorry I can't offer a better answer, I would rather err on the side of caution though. I've learnt through experience to never assume and would hate to see you get in a situation that could have been avoided.
Hope you manage to resolve this so all parties are happy.
Interesting dilemma. I have to side with those who say you should not take on the job until you have gone through the normal etiquette.
I'll add that if this is a lucrative job, and depending on the amount of the penalty, then you might consider offering to pay it as a first year discount to the new client. Make her aware of your professional misgivings about taking the job during the accountant's holiday, and she may respect you for a resourceful solution.
I'd have no hesitation if the penalty were £100 and under those circumstances, I might commence the job before speaking to the old boy, but without filing.
I just thought I'd update you on this. I took on board your comments and advice. Obviously it was something that concerned me or I wouldn't have raised it in the first place.
However, I also took on board my knowledge of my own relationship with the accountant and decided to do the work but pass it by him before submission to CoHouse.
He was absolutely fine with it and in fact it led to a discussion where he now wants to pass 6 or 7 of his other clients onto me. In the first instance he'd subcontract them to me but after a while we'd sit down with the clients and arrange for a proper transfer. He told me that he doesn't want to sell his practice when he finally retires and that he would prefer to pass all of his clients onto me if possible.
The girl who came to me in the first place is also going to move over to me with immediate effect. It was all very friendly. Sometimes you just have to trust your own judgement.
-- Edited by Mad Liz on Thursday 23rd of June 2011 08:31:15 AM
Must be a great relief that things have turned out so well.
I'm absolutely certain if you were the sort of person that did not have an ethical dimema over this then the accountant would not have been happy to pass their clients to you.
Great day methinks for good things coming to good people.
all the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
That's a brilliant outcome, I'm really pleased for you. You dealt with it professionally and as a consequence have gained from it with new business. A good example for others to take heed of I think.
