Im wondering if anyone can help me at all?? Since my last post I have now set up (mlr, pii, data protection, advert etc) I decided against the IAB membership I had applied for as I didnt want to be restricted to just the bookkeeping to tb. Anyway my advert went out last week and I have two potential clients. I have been looking everywhere for some kind of contract/terms of engagement but can't find anything, old threads on here with links are too old and links no longer working. My next step will be to contact a solicitor which seems costly so I am hoping anyone on here may be able to help or give me some pointers so that I can create my own. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hi Mark, Thankyou for your quick response and thankyou so much! My email is sally@thebooksangel.com. I look forward to hearing from you! Kind regards, Sally
Your website says you are a qualified bookkeeper, but that would normally means you are registered with a professional body, not just passing an exam!
I'm surprised you think being a IAB member would restrict you to just bookkeeping to TB, because it doesn't. There are lots of IAB members who do a lot more than bookkeeping! The services that IAB bookkeepers may offer to the Public (provided the member feels they are competent to do) are:
- Book-keeping - Account preperation - Budgets - Cash Flows - Wages & Salaries - VAT - Personal Income Tax - Business Income Tax - Corporation Tax - Chargeable Gains /CGT - Business Plans - Computerised Accounts - Other (i.e. any other services you want to provide!)
Of course if you had joined, you'd get everything you need from the IAB members handbook.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 8th of July 2011 02:29:58 PM
what about where you pass the exams of a supervisory body, practice under them for a while and then leave. Would you become unqualified.
Nothing against being a member of a supervisory body but just a thought on whether you would consider someone who has previously passed the exams and held a practice certificate to be unqualified if they then go it alone?
To my mind if you pass the exams regardless as to what you do later you never cease to be a qualified bookkeeper. You just cease to be able to mention the name of the body that you used to belong to.
Just interested to know your take on that.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Actually yes you would. Some bodies would make you retake your exams if you left it a few years, and tried to rejoin.
I'm sure you'd agree that if you passed the ICEAW or ACCA exams, practiced under them for a while and then left, you would not be able call yourself a Chartered Accountant? That is not unless you went on to join another professional body. You would be considered an unqualified Accountant. And although you could call yourself an Accountant, you could not call yourself a qualified accountant.
So why should it be any different for a Bookkeeper?
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 8th of July 2011 05:44:35 PM
one issue of course is that people who study under the accountancy bodies are permtted to trade as bookkeepers but not accountants until fully qualified and have done their post qualification experience requirement.
They've done the same training as bookkeepers and then gone beyond that.... for the most part! Although I don't want to get into the argument about people who skip some papers through exemptions here as I don't always agree that exemptions should be given and think some people miss out on very important training. Same with university accountancy courses where bookkeeping modules are optional... Another debate there methinks.
Anyway, I can see your point although I do feel that there are some grey area's in the debate I agree that it is only by being part of a body such as the IAB or ICB that one can legitimately call themselves a qualified bookkeeper and at best non members could be perceieved as coming into the qualified by experience category so it would be wrong to state that you are qualified in any published material regardless as to whether you have previously passed relevant exams.
There you go, for once no argument from me. I'm agreeing with you on this one Frauke.
Sometimes I think that for me it would have been so much simpler to have just completed IAB, ICB or AAT. I could have been doing peoples final accounts and tax returns by now rather than having to grit my teeth and tell people that they will need to talk to their accountants about questions that I know the answers to and indeed have been doing for my own company for the past twenty years!
Oh well, too close to the finish line to change horses now.
Have a good evening, all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
After four years of experience and many exams and one module left on my AAT level 4 being my unit 10 project what are you saying I should call myself?? I think within my own rights I can call myself qualified at bookkeeper level? Like you said it depends how competent you are and the services I offer are only that that I feel comfortable with and have experience and qualifications in..... More than can be said for a lot of people who go it alone with no clue and cause great problems that people like you and I have to deal with later on down the line.
I didnt want to go IAB route as I havent decided what path I will be taking from sept this year after AAT - if I decide ACCA I will have to cut my services anyway.....
I fully empathise with your position and I can also see Frauke's.
Personally I'm a similar way through ACCA studies to where you are with your AAT. Both of us have done bookkeeping studies and taken things well beyond the knowledge base of many bookkeepers who can be considered qualified due to their memberships but I don't think that either of us can call ourselves qualified bookkeepers as we cannot use our relevant bodies names (yet).
I was ICB for a couple of years and was a qualified bookkeeper in practice but gave it up in the frustration of not being permitted by the ACCA to perform tasks which people who only had the ICB qualification could (nothing against the ICB qualification there).
In all honesty I think that Frauke is correct in that even though I passed the exams and was a bookkeeper in practice I cannot now call myself a qualified bookkeeper as I resigned my membership... Doesn't mean that someone who is a qualified bookkeeper knows any more than me or is better at bookkeeping than me.
So all in all it's a bit of a conundrum.
as your on your last module it's not a conundrum that you will have for much longer. After you've done your year post qualification you could even call yourself a qualified accountant (although not a chartered or certified one).
Good luck with unit 10 Sally. Sure that you'll sail it.
All the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
An age old conundrum that's had many an accountant gritting their teeth that AAT people can be called accountants but an AAT qualification will only get you exemptions from the fundamentals level accountancy qualifications such as ACCA and then an ACCA person will have another 5+ years (and another 11 papers) before they can be an accountant.
If you studied for one of the accountancy qualifications you would understand why ICB/IAB people could not be considered accountants if that were the only studies they had done.
I think that all of the qualifications have merit.
ICB / IAB are bookkeeping qualifications.
ACCA / CIMA / ICAEW / ICAS / ICAI / etc. are accountancy.
AAT seems to be the midway house between bookkeeping and accountancy.
Sure that this one will spark a debate.
I'll be on the site again later. Look forwards to reading your reply,
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
My view is that bookkeepers shouldn't be called accountants - cos they're not. I'm a bookkeeper and I do not want my clients to think any other - I am not qualified enough to be classed as an accountant - and quite happy that being the case.
I've noticed a slight trend on bookkeepers' websites to use words like "accountancy services" as a way of attracting clients. I know my limits and I'll stick to calling myself a bookkeeper.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
I am in the camp that a person with a high enough proficiency/ experience could call themselves an accountant. I personally would not call myself an accountant but some of the work I do is on the edge of an accountants role.
I think Shaun mentioned earlier that a fully AAT qualified person can call themselves an accountant but not a certified, or chartered accountant, and I think this is where the difference lies.
I see it as a tiered system and loosely define the roles
Bookkeeper: Records, Collates and communicates financial information
Accountant: As above, plus analyses, and creates reports for decision makers (Owners, directors, managers etc) up to SME size business
Certified/ Chartered: As above plus large companies and PLCs, possibly audits, expert witness, and other things
These is just my broad brush thoughts on the subject.
