Going to throw a cat amongst the pigeons here.....Just been reading another post where a comment was made about the new bribery act and the government making more money out of registered professionals, got me thinking about a conversation I had just recently with a former colleague, an ACCA registered accountant who has just pulled out of all professional bodies.
He said he was throughly sick of the money he was paying, and just got a real sickner recently after suing a client over an unpaid bill then the ex-client made unfounded complaints to ACCA after he got a CCJ against him. This guy had to take 3 days out of his practice to go meet an ACCA panel at his own expense to answer the complaint. They did clear him okay, but he has now taken down the certificates and thrown them into a drawer, maintaining that if he could train again he would take the courses but wouldn't bother sitting the exams as the majority of his clients couldn't care less about his qualifacations, and wouldn't understand them anyway, all they care about is how much tax he saves them. I have to say, he does have a point, he only had a couple of clients that required an audit, so he hasn't any big losses here.
I sometimes think that I could have framed pictures of mickey mouse instead of my certificates for all the attention they get, it is a bit annoying when I see the money I have put into my training when others are just out merrily working away and wonder if it was worth it.
I would say that your former colleague was extremely unlucky, but he does make some good points.
I'm CIMA qualified. I worked extremely hard to achieve it, and in my situation (sole practitioner), they are not much use. It would be easier to let my membership lapse and save myself a couple of hundred pounds p/a. The vast majority of new clients don't bother asking if I'm qualified, there is an assumption that all accountants are.
This is something that has been covered several times in that the supervisory bodies only have the relevance that their members (rather than the public) give them. A body may charge and do whatever it likes and if we want to be part of that body we jump through the burning hoops.
Your freind is right, generally people in business don't seem to check the papers on the wall too closely but notice that other accountants do! As I say, all this paperwork is for ourselves, not the end clients. We impose a pecking order on ourselves and live by it.
On the other side of the coin of course is the arguement that in order to determine whether someone is capable of doing a role they should pass certain examinations.... But when you have passed the exams why do you need to continue to pay someone in order to keep recognition of that knowledge.
Does one suddenly stop having the knowledge if they do not pay an annual subscription?
Again, you're freinds appriasal of ACCA studies has merit in that the examinations are second to none and anyone who can get through them deserves recognition... But once you have passed them what does membership of that or any other organisation bring?
If someone passes a degree they do not have to pay the university for their entire life in order to keep that degree. What is so different about an accountancy qualification that it comes with a renewable expiry date!
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Agreed... I have to say I am lucky that I haven't had any real bother from my clients, we have all had the ones that gripe when they get their bill but mine have paid up in the end. My friend seemed to think that ACCA's handling of the situation was extremely unprofessional, I can't comment as I wasn't there but he isn't normally a complainer and was not impressed. I know they have been accused in the past of using their system of fines as another source of revenue.
People do assume that we are all qualified, they haven't a clue. Once of the best accountants and tax practicioners I have ever seen as no qualifications above 'O'level, he works within a local well-respected auditors doing all the hard work and someone else signs off the accounts! Joe public would think it a bit of a joke, but I suppose if he can do the job well, and his employers certainly have the faith that he can why not if the system lets him. Unfortunately though as we are all well aware, there are those who cannot do the job well.
Qualified bookkeepers and accountants have to be more careful and have to turn away potential clients, whose attitude to bookkeeping and accounting may come across as a threat to the bookkeeper or accountant as a professional.
Also they generally maintain a high standard of work due to this threat looming over their head. (ps: am including ICB, AAT, IFA , etc folks within this group)
I feel soo sorry for your friend. Accounting bodies need to support their members from unscrupulous few folks who can take advantage of their commitment and pressure they are under to maintain those high standards, even when unscrupulous clients don't pay them and play them off with fellow professionals or their respective accounting bodies.
I do find that good entrepreneurs respect their accountants and bookkeepers knowledge and the bookkeeper's/ accountant's understanding of the concepts within our field (gained from their studies). So there are clients out there, who are willing to pay the premium to have support from their qualified accountants and bookkeepers.
Like Nick, am a member of CIMA (who have left CCAB and are now close with AICPA, one of the American accounting bodies but thats another story....)
We've done the qualified vs Unqualified on here many times but what about the qualified who then move away from the professional bodies?
What actually merrits qualified.
If you've passed all of the exams and done the experience requirements and been a member in practice what stops you saying that you are qualified because you then leave the professsional body that you qualified under?
I agree that one cannot make reference to the body but you do not stop being a trained bookkeeper or accountant.
You are still bound by the companies act (which bind you to accounting strandards) and the supply of good and services act along with numerous acts. (MLR, Anti Bribery, etc.).
This debate is right up there with a passprt having to be current in order to be valid evidence of identity... Do you suddenly stop being who you are because of a passport expiry date?
On the other matter. Any idea why CIMA chose AICPA? Do you think that they might actually be shooting themselves in the foot a little with the move away from CCAB?
All the best,
Shaun.
P.S. This debate does not necessarily reflect my own beliefs on being part of a supervisory body but it's an interesting discussion that has been touched upon and skirted around recently and a full blown discussion on it would certainly not go amiss.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
On one side, as long as the qualified accountant or bookkeeper keeps their knowledge up to date, not many issues.
On the flip side, accountants and bookkeepers conforming to the same professional standards and values through support and infrastructure via accounting and bookkeeping bodies; whose services they pay for via membership will translate to standard record keeping, business support and tax planning being available to the public.
"Any idea why CIMA chose AICPA? Do you think that they might actually be shooting themselves in the foot a little with the move away from CCAB?"
CIMA are embracing globalisation, though a merger with ICAEW and CIPFA fell threw some years back.
Dalbir
"P.S. This debate does not necessarily reflect my own beliefs" Shamus sitting on the fence................
I think the older I'm getting, the less impressed I am by the certificates, I'm seriously considering not renewing. It's not through fear of what happened to my friend, it's just got me thinking about why I keep paying, I just seem to send payments year after year for not much in return. As a sole trader too, it mattters to me less and less whether I'm a member of anything or not.
I think it may be a confidence thing, I know you never stop learning, but I know I was able to do what it took to pass the exams, and to be honest, I have learnt so much more with experience than the exams. Still thinking about it.
