Voluntary work - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Spamkebab · Expert

Voluntary work

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Congratulations on the excellent news Neil.

As you say, it's a stepping stone and if it gives you any additional hope I know of several people who have gone on from voluntary positions to be offered jobs with the firms. This could be a real positive step in the right direction for you.

Always good when we get some good news on the site.

good luck matey,

Shaun.

Spamkebab · Expert

Thanks Shaun, just hope i didn't have spelling mistakes and cockups in my letter like i usually do when posting on here. That bit of info you just gave me made me smile even wider. The best bit is the company is only round the corner from where i live. I actually wanted to put it across in this post that letters, albeit typed on Word are highly regarded and well worth the while composing and posting. After all what is there to lose? ( a stamp? no big deal unless your a philatelist)

Don Tax · Expert

Way to go, Neil. Great initiative.

Tim

LOL at philatelist.

-- Edited by Don Tax on Wednesday 3rd of August 2011 04:23:08 PM

Susie Sue · Senior Member

Well done Neil. Like you say you just never know and for the price of a stamp....

Ray2000 · Veteran Member

Yes, well done Neil

Spamkebab · Expert

Thanks gang, Just one more thing........Riddle me this ? "What is the difference between an Accountant and a Bookkeeper and after qualifying for AAT Technician status are you more geared up for Bookkeeping or Accountancy?"

Bit of a discussion in college last night, is there a fine line? what does an Accountant do that a Bookkeeper doesn't? Apart from earn 3 times more.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Morning Neil,

more difficult question than it sounds.

AAT would have you believe that at MAAT level you are an accountant and MAAT's only realise that from the qualification alone they were'nt when they go on to study ACCA, ACA or CIMA.

Once your at MAAT if you don't go on then really your status says that you are an accountant and then it's your experience gained at what you do that defines who you are.

If you are MAAT but spend your days mostly doing Sales and purchase ledger work, prep to trail balance, payroll work, etc then your a bookkeeper. If you spend your days chatting to clients, preparing accounts (finanical and management), Giving tax advice etc. (also with a fair chunk of bookkeeping related work thrown into the pot) then your an accountant.

Many bookkeepers in reality act as accountants and many accountants are little more than bookkeepers so as you say the line can be a fine and very much moving one.

The real issue is that neither role is defined in law (except for accountants working in Audit and Insolvency). If it was then the accountants would take everything profitable and interesting and bookkeepers would get what remains!

Personal opinion and others will disagree is that AAT falls more on the bookkeeping than accountancy side of the fence but like all bookkeeping qualifications there is an element of accountancy about it. That makes sense as how can anyone keep books where they don't understand how the data that they are building will eventually be used?

Think that I've probably just caused more discussion rather than answered your question but hope it helps anyway,

kind regards,

Shaun.

BudgetB · Guru

Hello Shaun,

Just wanted to say 'nice website', hope that your relaunch goes really well.

And of course well done to Neil

-- Edited by BudgetB on Thursday 4th of August 2011 11:39:42 AM

Spamkebab · Expert

My tutor agrees (with you Shaun) about the AAT being a Bookkeepers qualification, although i am a little stumped by job vacancies i've seen advertised, i guess they are trying to secure an Accountant on Bookkeepers pay from the job descriptions. I was wondering how far into Cost centres and costings etc. a Bookkeeper gets involved as this is studied at AAT Intermediate. I can understand the Spreadsheet, Indirect tax and Cash Management modules, but Costs & Revenues? Also after becoming MAAT what is required from a person for them to be able to do a firms accounts from start to finish, or is this not possible without chartered status? I know the last question is maybe something i should know but at the moment with all thats going on my head is full of broken biscuits.

Thanks for the replies, i'm enjoying my little chats

Neil

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers Jenny,

fingers are crossed... Which really doesn't help with my typing speed!

As you've probably noticed the relaunch concentrates on mixing my existing business skills with the bookkeeping side of things rather than just being a straight swap to bookkeeping which was the essence of the first failed attempt.

The ACCA restrictions meant that I really could not make enough money from bookkeeping alone as I was not allowed to do tasks that other bookkeepers were allowed to even though I was studying at a higher level! So lost too many because I had to tell them that they would still need to have an accountant as well as me.

Problem with the adopted approach though is that it's more expensive as I'm not going to be able to run it in a back bedroom (or at least not for long) as to make this work I'm going to have to hire others to do most of the bookkeeping and Payroll work so more to lose if it doesn't take off!

Also, I'm of the mind that unless you business looks to clients like a business (staff, premises, etc) then they do not regard it as one.

Mmm, there's a question buried in there... Wonder how it ties in with the ACCA rules if the people that you hire are allowed under their qualifications to do more than you and even if you don't advertise such services you allow them to work to their qualifications?

Anyway, as expected all my ducks are still not in a row and I'm hypathetically four days into the relaunch.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

BudgetB · Guru

Yes I agree, customers like to see you looking like a business. Several people, when they phone to enquire, will ask me if I have an office or work from home, and like the fact that it's office based. I think partly this stems from some of my clients having previously been well and truly stitched up by awful bookkeepers who were working from home (this doesn't mean everyone home based is awful by the way) and so seem to think that if they get an office based one they have more security. Works for me!

Your website does make you sound like so much more than a bookkeeper, and as we all know you have the knowledge/experience, so it is a shame that you're not able to offer the add on services, tax returns etc.

Don Tax · Expert

Hi, its a spectrum from data entry to Chartered Actuaries (who i think are the highest paid). When i studied AAT it included a business law element, a fair bit of algebra and a VAT unit. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thing they're all gone now. This was early to mid-nineties. I think to be a CA you're taking things further x 3; there's no fine line. There's a CA up the road that would be on the phone constantly if i encouraged him. Then again he's done far more exams than me and knows a lot more. I don't think he's a typical example though, but he's got a great business.

Spamkebab · Expert

What have i got myself into? lol
Maybe i'll just work on finding the answer to the question "What is the meaning of life" instead of "What is the difference between an Accountant and a Bookkeeper"

Good talk

Neil.

Don Tax · Expert

i know its terrifying. and then there's the 7 year apprenticeship

http://www.fbt-global.com/professional/acca/syllabus/

well done anyone who's been through it.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi,

what 7 year apprenticeship?

ACCA requires 36 months of signed off relevant experience for membership.

To gain a practice certificate requires 24 months post qualification, however, the 36 months can include the 24 months so if you do the qualification and then do three years in practice you could go straight to a membership and a practice certificate.

I think that's what you were thinking about but please correct me if I've answered something completely different.

Also note that ACCA does not require a training provider. Just around £100 to £200 worth of books per paper* (plus exam fee's of course) and an awful lot of dedication to study.

Talk in a bit,

Shaun.

*There are 14 papers to pass.

Spamkebab · Expert

OK i made the phone call and have an interview next friday, (well he said next friday, i hope he didn't mean tomorrow arghhh) to discuss exactly where i'm up to. Anyway i can see this post carrying on for the next 5 or 6 years as i carry you all with me as i progress through the different levels and stages. Thanks for all your help and support everyone and at the moment i feel i may just be getting somewhere. I will probably make JEDI MASTER status off this post lol.

See you all anon

Neil

-- Edited by Spamkebab on Thursday 4th of August 2011 04:58:20 PM

ahmad · Member

Good luck Neil. You will get this job Inshallah.

ahmad

Don Tax · Expert

Sorry Shaun, I was talking out of my hat as usual.
take care,
Tim

Spamkebab · Expert

So i passed Accounts Preperation 2 yesterday, another qualification i can take to interview with me on friday. On to Costs and Revenues now, apparently this module has the highest failure rate of AAT, am i correct? (i know this isn't in the qualifications section but didn't want to create another post all about me lol) I must say that getting your result straight away be it pass or fail is a result in itself. I am still waiting for 2 certificates, 1 from 8 weeks ago for courses i studied from christmas and don't have a clue how i've done.

Don Tax · Expert

WTG Neil and good luck on Friday. Let us know how you go on.
Tim

Amanda · Expert

HI Neil,

I personally found costs and revenues ok, although I did do my intermediate a few years ago. I found it was logical thinking with costs and revenues. I'm sure you will be ok.

Good luck on Friday!

Cheers

Spamkebab · Expert

Thanks guys and gals. Interview over, apparently i wasn't the only one to send a "begging letter" so anyway, awaiting a phone call now......................
Amanda i'm finding this module hard to follow with the Kaplan book, have you any reccomendations for texts or websites i could use to help, i'ts simple things like the FIFO, LIFO and AVCO stock cards that need filling in. I get the system, and the math but it's the layout. Only example in the Kaplan book is scrawled and hard to comprehend. As for the EOQ sum, will i be tested on the square root of admin fees and who last fed the dog? seriously, this is Bookkeeping?

Thanks

Neil

Don Tax · Expert

Hi Neil,

I never did get costing and as for FIDO, don't leave any food out on the sideboard.

Tim :o)

Amanda · Expert

HI,

Have yopu gone on to the student members part of the AAT website, there is a forum there to go on that might help.

I always find writin it out loads of times helps to remember it, it was a long time ago I did minem but I always find writing it out helps.

ta

-- Edited by Amanda on Monday 15th of August 2011 12:08:58 PM

ghis · Senior Member

Congratulations. I have written to some of my local accountant firms and bookkeeping companies with no luck, but reading your status has kind of giving me hope.

when you wrote to them, did you send a CV?

Spamkebab · Expert

Hi Ghis, Yes i always post a C.V. with my (begging) letters. I have very little in the way of accounts or bookkeeping experience but i hope that my C.V.
shows how much i have achieved in other jobs. I have supervisory and managerial experience within small business' and i hope this shows that i am
a people person, able to get along with people on all levels. My letters have improved as has my C.V. as the weeks fly by. (To be honest though, and i never
thought i'd feel this way, i feel that people are wasting my time at the moment, recruitment agencies in particular). When you write to these people always remember that they will potentially be losing billable
hours if they take you on, and that if the shoe was on the other foot would you do it? it makes it a little easier to appreciate how hard it is to get a foot in the door.
I look at it like this: one well written letter and C.V. sent to a company is going to get you more response than ten poor letters and C.V.'s so i just take my time, prolly
write the same letter out four or five times before i'm happy (sometimes leave it til' morning and re-read, then change something). Also Ghis i have waited up to six weeks for a response, i mean, i wrote to this firm in March or somewhere around that time, i had written them off. Keep trying and good luck.