Massage Parlour? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Noola · Senior Member

Massage Parlour?

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Kay,

In what way did her description shock you? I can't help but think you are perhaps getting a bit worried over nothing, unless she's told you different. Massage services are not all seedy back street places, in fact I would say very very few are. Most offer a sought after service, my local health centre offers them, and the council run leisure centre too.

I certainly wouldn't refuse a client based on my preconceived ideas, I would urge you to think carefully before you say no.

Kris

Marky65 · Guru

Morning Kay

I tend to agree with Kris that your preconceived ideas may be clouding your thoughts.

And if it is the other sort of massage parlour, I am sure that she would not be trying to recruit you to work for her, and if she wants her books being done properly then it may indicate that, whilst the services offered go beyond normal massage, she at least wants her books kept properly & legally.

I would recommend that you at least go along and talk to her and if you then decide not to proceed at least you can be satisfied that you have thoroughly investigated it.

Good luck

Mark

Noola · Senior Member

She told me exactly what she offered, bit too much information if I'm honest. Never had that kind of conversation with a potential client before and at first I thought someone was having me on because she was talking about things that didn't need to be said if that makes sense.

I thought it was illegal to be involved in this kind of work but apparently its not, being just one person working there. What would I be writing in the sales part of the accounts??

I just don't feel comfortable going along to the premises, the phonecall seemed too strange for my liking. Am I able to ask her to drop her paperwork off? Is this usual practice in some cases?

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

I didn't realise you felt so strongly. Perhaps this is one to pass on. What area are you in? Perhaps you can refer her to someone else who would be prepared to do the work?

Kris

Marky65 · Guru

Hi Kay

If you are so adamant about this then you are right to follow your feelings but I am sure there are many who will be more than happy to take this client on.

Let us know what area it is in and we might know of someone who we could recommend

Mark

AICB · Senior Member

Thinking about it with my (previously worn) risk management hat on, if she were dodgy, she would be unlikely to be trying so hard to have her accounts and vat on a legal footing.

Andy

(no - that's not my risk management hat in the picture!)

BudgetB · Guru

But surely if you were dodgy you would want your accounts in order as that makes you look less dodgy and more like you're actually doing massage?

Point 2 made me laugh (although I appreciate it's not a laughing matter), that's quite an extreme reaction, and I'm sure she's probably perfectly nice.

Noola · Senior Member

I get uneasy about meeting people on my own even if it seems fine there are still risks and anything could happen. When I worked as an estate agent I hated being alone in properties with people I didn't know but its part of the job I suppose. Unfortunately we're not psychic.

The building is quite derelict, I was fine with it being the barbers as I know of the man who owned it and he's a lovely person. I just don't know what to expect when I go up there. I imagine it being very grotty with allsorts of contraptions hanging about. And the way she was talking last night she doesn't sound very sane (sorry thats the only word I can think of) sane enough to get her books sorted obviously but I agree with BB. People tend to try to look 'honest' if they are dodgy.

She has admitted that she is involved in prostitution, I would have thought it would be illegal to represent someone in the sex trade? I am naive, but I know that massage parlours are not solely for 'massage'. The word parlour gives it away.

AICB · Senior Member

It's one of the benefits of being a self-employed bookkeeper - you can choose who to work with and who not to work with - and you don't have to justify your decision to anyone.

I think you should follow your instinct and be happy that you've made your own choice. You'll also have freed up the time to take on the next client who comes along - if you want to

Andrew

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Why not arrange to meet clients and potential clients elsewhere if you worry about your safety?

I generally use a local hotel, for no reason other than it's fairly central, nice and that I work from home with 2 young children it's not ideal to meet here.

Kris

BudgetB · Guru

I think that, despite the fact that many of us would do her books, if you don't feel comfortable then say no thank you and refer her on to someone else local. As Andrew says, that's the joy of self employment, you don't have to do anything, least of all something that makes you feel uneasy.

Noola · Senior Member

I like the idea of meeting somewhere local, how could I decide on a price if I don't see any of her paperwork? What questions should I ask? I was thinking of calling each client ' a transaction' so should I ask how many transactions she has in a day? Also she has only started up within the last few days so how would I determine a price for future work? Would I say that once she has completed a months work I will take the paperwork and do it monthly until we know how much paperwork the business produces?

Doing this from home was alot harder than I thought! :/

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

I assume it's a cash business, so you probably wouldn't be putting each sale through individually, but rather a daily total. So you know there will be 30ish sales per month. Then if you can find out the average purchases/expenses you will have your answer.

I offer a monthly price from the initial meeting. Normally without seeing the paperwork. You'll probably see on my website that potential clients can get a quote from me without even speaking to me.

Kris

AICB · Senior Member

A very good website too, if I might say so Kris. Very impressive and businesslike.

Andrew

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Thanks Andrew,

I'm still not happy with it, but don't have much time to make the changes I need right now.

Kris

Anderson Accountancy · Veteran Member

I'm not sure if it is illegal to represent someone on a financial matter, if so, could this extend to solicitors?

I have a client who is an escort and everyone knows that they are not prostitutes because you are paying for a lady/gent to spend some time with you and what is agreed between 2 consenting adults is between them - but look at the web sites and they make it clear what is being offered for the fee you pay.

To be honest, I would love to base my entire practice on escorts, the money they make is phenomenal. Although I do not have any massage parlours, I would also not hesitate in taking them on (if I felt I could do business with them). But I do understand your concerns about going to their premises - why simply ask them to meet you at your premises and then ask that they drop the bookkeeping to you? Nothing wrong with that; all my bookkeeping clients except one do just that.

If you work from home and are reluctant for people to come to you, why not use local hotels, leisure centres etc? I have often used Basepoint Centres, David Lloyd and Holiday Inns for meetings.

gbm · Guru

This has been one of the most interesting (& bizarre!) threads on here!

Noola, you don't have to call each client a 'transaction', because then (I guess!!!!!!!) you're into the various acts and the different rates. You just need a gross sales figure. As it's a service, I wouldn't have thought there would be a huge amount of expenditure.

As others have said, you obviously don't feel comfortable about acting for this person on a moral level, so I would suggest that you make an excuse and don't act.

Funnily enough, one of my holiday reading books was Superfreakonomics which had a chapter on prostitution - all eye-opening stuff!

I am quite surprised that they are declaring their income, I would have thought that, as mentioned, it is an illegal activity and would remain in the shadows. Perhaps she wants to get finance?

Peasie · Expert

I would have no qualms about doing the bookkeeping in this case. What this person does is unlikely to be stated on copy invoices. My only problem would arrive when it came to the expenses and which ones were allowable.

Anderson Accountancy · Veteran Member

Certain amount of hand cream?

Sorry, couldn't resist! :)

semsley · Guru

Love it - Tissues, KY, condoms, vibrators, bras, panties, stockings - I've just been reading Diary of a Manhattan Call Girl!!!!!

Peasie · Expert

semsley wrote:
Love it - Tissues, KY, condoms, vibrators, bras, panties, stockings - I've just been reading Diary of a Manhattan Call Girl!!!!!

I think I'll just copy/paste this as my shopping list for the weekend.

Noola · Senior Member

Hahaha!! It would be very interesting I'll give it that. I've asked to meet in a coffee shop tomorrow so I feel safer that way. The only thing I can't get my head around is the fact that whoever she has 'declared' this to, have advised her she is doing nothing wrong. She has admitted to me that there is sex and other things involved and she is getting paid for it. So this is clearly prostitution, which is illegal obviously. I didn't think HMRC would tax prostitutes as they would then be making money from the sex trade if that makes sense.

AICB · Senior Member

So far as I know, it's not illegal to earn your living as a prostitute; what's illegal is to earn your living off the prostitution of others, as in pimping or being a brothel keeper.

It's also illegal, I think, to solicit punters in public places, but that's the means and not the ends (if you'll pardon the doubtful allusion ...)

Andrew

-- Edited by AICB on Wednesday 31st of August 2011 03:38:16 PM

-- Edited by AICB on Wednesday 31st of August 2011 03:38:50 PM

ADAS · Guru

Completely agree with Andrew, "selling sexual services" isn't illegal but pimping and soliciting are. I actually game across a web-site once that gave accounting / tax advice to sex workers but I can't find it at the moment.

ADAS · Guru

semsley wrote:
... bras, panties, stockings.

Hmmm, could there be a problem with duality, unless there was a logo on the "uniform" biggrin

Peasie · Expert

ADAS wrote:
Completely agree with Andrew, "selling sexual services" isn't illegal but pimping and soliciting are. I actually game across a web-site once that gave accounting / tax advice to sex workers but I can't find it at the moment.

I think I've seen a website like that as well. Can't remember how I found it either.

Noola · Senior Member

ADAS wrote:
Completely agree with Andrew, "selling sexual services" isn't illegal but pimping and soliciting are. I actually game across a web-site once that gave accounting / tax advice to sex workers but I can't find it at the moment.

It would be an interesting read. I always thought it was illegal :/ never expected to come across this especially not so soon after setting up! At least it will come in handy if I ever get another one, apparently there are lots of massage parlours in the area so could be one of many!

BudgetB · Guru

Love this thread. Am glad to see that overall you seem to be feeling better about the situation now Noola. Who said accountancy was dull!!

David, I take it from your message then that neither of us got the accounts for the massage parlour by my office that we both quoted for via Linked In!

hope · Newbie

its 100% legal to do what this lady is doing ..

see here - taxrelief4escorts.co.uk

pDm · Senior Member

Suddenly my idea of offering a tailored (or couture?) service for Drag Queens doesn't seem that off the wall. I can't wait to have to explain that "Yes, my client really did buy all of those feather boas for business use."

Amanda · Expert

God this thread has made me laugh this morning!!!!

gbm · Guru

So Kay, how did it go?