GCSE and A Levels are not seen as a professional qualifications in their own right - they are more of a gateway to either getting a degree and/or a professional qualification. (OCR and Edexel are just exam boards for (mainly, but not exclusively) GCSEs/A Levels. Personally, I'd also group RSA, C&G, Pitman, BTEC qualifications in with GCSEs.
Also, even if you have a degree in accounting (from the OU or any other university), you still wouldn't be regarded as "professionally qualified" unless you went on to do a professional qualification
I am aware they are not professional bodies, which is how I structured my posting But many years ago all of these qualifications would be granted exemption from applicable level in the professional qualifications, however the AAT doesn't list them all and a lot of the higher level qualifications which would give CIMA/ACCA foundation have been withdrawn such as the LCCI Executive Diploma. I am just wondering why the middle level qualifications still exist if they are not recognised for example by the AAT.
EDI, IAB, ACCA CAT are there. I think C&G, EDEXEL are covered by those units with just NVQ3.
I started the AAT 25 years ago with exemptions based on A Levels including Accounting and my booking knowledge was from a GCSE accounts/accounting course. I am considering starting from the beginning The OU courses look interesting....
-- Edited by EuRoPe on Friday 2nd of September 2011 09:50:54 PM
I am aware they are not professional bodies, which is how I structured my posting But many years ago all of these qualifications would be granted exemption from applicable level in the professional qualifications, however the AAT doesn't list them all -- Edited by EuRoPe on Friday 2nd of September 2011 09:50:54 PM
That list looks to be exemptions for specific modules which I would imagine need to be more specific as they'd need to match exact course content. If you can convince your learning provider (and they in term the AAT) you have enough knowledge from prior education or experiences you can skip entire level. That is not limited to qualifications listed on a pre-prepared list.
exemptions are a complete minefield which often boils down more to the internal negotiations of the various bodies than the merit of the qualification.
Some interesting examples of that would be the OU B680 course gives exemption from IAB up to member level (which I think is too much for it) but the AAT ABC bookkeeping course which is essentially the same course doesn't.
ICB has only just started giving any exemptions at all for the higher ACCA qualification and even now that's only for one low level paper taken within the last two years that will give exemption from the ICB level I paper!
ACCA don't give exemptions for ICB at all but for IAB which isn't that dissimilar they will give exemptions from the foundation papers.
Its also worth noting that there is no point taking qualifications for current exemptions as these get withdrawn or changed.
From your list I notice that you have Pitman in there but have you noticed with Pitman that they usually tie the qua\lification in with another qualificcation such as ICB or IAB which is more widely recognised.
As far as exemptions go another thing to look at is even if you can take them, should you?
The lower level papers prepare the foundations for you to build on where similar qualifications may miss chunks of the syllabus.
As an example, I passed the OU B680 certificate in accountancy which would have given me exemption from ACCA fundamental level (first three papers).
Several of us went on from OU to ACCA. I took the exams. the others took the exemptions.
When we got to the skills level papers I did ok but the others really struggled as these were the first ACCA papers that they had taken and there was carried forwards knowledge that just wasn't deep enough.
As it transpired I was the only one of the group that ended up continuing with the qualification after the first few papers of the skills level as once you've claimed exemptions to the best of my knowledge you can't then reverse that decision and go back to fill in the gaps in your knowledge base.
Just thought that point was worth making as it really does seem to be the case that taking exemptions can sometimes be a false economy.
Anyway, welcome to the forum. And good first post,
all the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Personally I don't have a problems with exemptions, especially for people who took all the exams at long time ago and perhaps have returned by updating through experience. As long as everyone does lots of relevant CPD, and theres never any harm in doing refresher courses, or even having a go at the latest exam which may have done in the past to make sure we keep up to date and sometimes learn something new.
I hated structured studying when I was a lot younger, now I have less of a problem with it, and will do it for my own satisfaction from time to time.
I have been reading this forum for quite awhile, and I am interested in which you believe are most highly regarded recognised qualifications:
AAT, IAB and ICB are the choice of professional bodies before progressing to the CCAB and non CCAB professional bodies.
But which other qualifications? There appears to be so many in additional to the AAT, IAB, ICB:
OCR/RSA
EDI/LCCI
C&G/Pitman
Pitman Training
EDEXCEL/BTEC
OU
Why are GCSE and A Level not discussed here? Can these be used with modern vocational qualifications?
It's all about whether or not the exams /qualifications of the respective bodies (either examining or supervisory) are compliant with the NQF (National Qualifications Framework). If they are they are, they qualify for exemptions to supervising bodies, if not they don't.
AAT, OCR/RSA, EDI/LCCI, C&G/Pitman, Edexcel/BTEC are all known to and accepted by employers.
ICB/IAB are not well known amongst employers but are the qualifications of choice for self-employed as they are supervising bodies for MLR.
Therefore, it depends on what you want to do as to what exams you choose.
Yes GCSE and A Levels can be used as they sit on the qualifications framework at levels 2 (if grade A* to C) and 3 respectively.
@ Europe, sorry I was at slightly cross purposes. I meant that certain qualifications, like GCSEs and A levels and so on are more of an indication of a general level of educational attainment (kind of in the same way that employers ask for 5 GCSEs but without specifying particular subjects, or having an A Level doesn't give an exemption from a degree... ) I read somewhere that AAT is equivalent to the first year of a degree and that ACCA, CIMA etc... were degree equivalent (not sure if that's actually true or just hype) which might explain why some qualifications don't lead to exemptions. Also, imho, I do think that there might be an element of "kudos" involved when prof bodies decide what they will accept as worthy of granting exemptions, which is tempered by a desire to encourage people to qualify with their body.
-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 19th of September 2011 07:22:00 PM
great reply but I feel that I've got to comment to the hype statement in relation to professional qualification vs Degree path.
I can't comment at all about CIMA (think that one's your body isn't it?) but from the ACCA perspective I think that having ACCA is actually better than a degree. Right, there's the contentious statment out of the way now on the explain my reasoning.
the first three papers of ACCA are the equivalent to AAT and I wouldn's say that they are degree level study.
The next six ACCA papers are the equivalent of the degree... Seems that some come away from these with the same wide eyed glazed expressions only otherwise found on the faces of vietnam vets!
the last five at the professional level are at Masters level.
Personally I think that some papers merit inclusion as degree equivalents more than others. The one that really stands out for me being Corporate Law which is a doosie of a paper to go into the exam hall thinking that there is nothing that can be asked that you don't know case law and statute for.... I know that a lot of people manage to pass it with a lower level of knowledge and luck of the questions but isn't that true of any bodies exams and also degree's.
I've employed people off the milk run with degree's who in hindsight I wouldn't trust to work as a lollipop crossing gaurd and others who have astounded me with their level of knowledge retention which to me, for employing someone makes a degree alone pretty useless as a sole indication as to what someone can do for my team.
One arguement I've had at pretty high level in banking was why we should not employ people straight from school with good A level results (espechially in History and Maths) and put them through ACCA rather than paying top dollar for graduates to put through ACCA which to me seems like employing someone with a degree in order to take another degree. This suggestion was on the back of a high graduate burn rate due to failure to pass the ACCA papers.
I didn't get anywhere (the suggestion was just brushed aside) as it was felt that people straight from school were not yet mature enough for the roles (I cannot always agree with that). Personally I still think that starting school leavers on paper F1 would reap more cost effective results than only employing graduates with exemptions from often surprising numbers of the ACCA papers dependant upon what and where they studied for their degree.
The ACCA qualification will never replace the social side or the personal growth and self discovery of those three years after school but for a career move to me I think that the ACCA qualification is a sound replacement for and is at least at the same level of study as taking a degree.
Well, that's my two penneth on the equivalence of ACCA to a degree. Sure others will have a different take on things.
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I did my degeree in something unrelated to acccountancy and then did the AAT. I felt that the AAT was in no way comparable to a degree. Yet the ICAEW gave me four exemptions for my AAT but if i had spent three years doing a degree in accountancy i would have only got one more exemption.
On a side note my tutor said people who have done the AAT, generally do better at ACA than people with an accountancy degree due to knowing the underlying principles of double entry.
To be honest i didn't find the (completed on friday!) ACA any harder than my degree, but this is slightly muddles by the fact that my degree was not in accountancy.
I am not sure that it is seen as being as good as a masters, as to go on to do a PHD in accountancy you either need a really good degree in accountancy (which i dont have) or a professional qualification (ACCA,ACA,CIMA?) PLUS a masters in accountancy. Although perhaps there is some theoretical aspect of accountancy that Universities insist students know which professional bodies do not cover.
Either way with a degree, you still need the professional qualifiaction to be in practice, so the degree can only be an added luxury on a CV, where as a professional qualification is a necessity.
Just my thoughts
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
Excellent news! Congratulations on passing ACA! (think fireworks and popping champagne corks special effects).
just realised that my post could read as though ACCA is the equivalent of a masters. Not what I meant. It's the equivalent of a BSc and the later papers are at masters level of study but a PHd would be anawful lot more work to attain.
On the theory side ACCA does have a fair chunk of that buried in there with study of management and motivational theorists going hand in hand with financial and Management reporting. (Paper P1 is the best example of a theory paper although P3's not far behind and those are two of the three core papers).
Anyway, other bodies stuff aside, you must still be absolutely exstatic at the moment (if it's actually sunk in properly yet). Well done matey.
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Long time no speak. Had a few days away week ago, and have been a bit busy, just popping in and out of the forum, with the odd posts (took me nearly a day to catch up on the backlog of new posts that arrived in my absense!)
It can't be long before you get your results, dare I ask when you are likely to find out.
not been on here that much myself recently. Busy little bee at the mo.
failed by 2%... I suppose slightly less annoying than failing by 1% last time!
Can see where I dropped some points but from reading the questions and answers I really don't feel that a failure was deserved in this instance.
If you complain all that they do is recount the ticks in the marking column so, deep intake of breath and take it on the chin methinks as getting a judicial review by the council never gets you anywhere.
If this was an options paper I would pick a different option but unfortunately it's the last of the core papers (P2).
Oh well, anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger and all that!
Hope the lifes good with you. Have you had you posted your finalist information off to Steve yet? If not think that you need to get it accross by midday today.
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
What a bummer!!! You are being very pragmatic about it. Are you sure it is not worth having it reviewed?
Oh burger! Just found the email from Steve. Been trying to catch up with correspondence since I got back, and concentrated on the client ones. I left all the bookcert ones 'till last.
Wow didn't even know I had been nominated. That in itself is a singular honour . Got to meet a client in a few minutes, so am going to struggle getting the info to Steve by midday .
It is odd not to have something hanging over me after 7 years of first AAT then ACA. Although i am keeping an eye out for something else to do, maybe something away from Accountancy.
Sorry to hear you just missed out, how often can you sit exams?
regards
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
it's every six month so next sitting is at the start of December. ACCA are thinking of making the exams on demand but for the forseeable I think that it will just remain as June and December.
kind regards.
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
How are you? ACCA result didn't favour me either, I got 41 in my last 2 papers p5 and p7, p7 for the second time, hoping to write both in december again, any advice welcome.
Completely off-topic, but is there a time limit on editing posts? My reply further up this thread has some pretty awful spelling, grammar & punctuation issues arising from trying to reply using a "smartphone". I was going to correct them, but it seems I can't now.
@Shaun, commiserations on missing out by a lousy 2%
had me really grinding my teeth when I got the result espechially as I know someone who comes to me regularly for technical advice and they passed it! Personally even though these are now marked online I think that there is still a certain element of luck as to which marker you get when it comes to essay type answers which of course at this level most of them are.
If there is anything that you desperately want to be changed let me know and I'll amend it. Just post the amendment that you want as an edit to your previous post (from 18:48) or in your reply to this one then I'll cut and past it into the original and then delete it from your last one. (there's an admin overhead for me so it's a bit of a spiderman thing in that "Everyone gets one!").
Talk later,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
That just rubs salt in the wound doesn't it... although take heart that it was sounds like it was more to do with exam technique than actual knowledge gaps.
lol, and thank you
-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 19th of September 2011 07:25:35 PM
actually the spelling issues were nothing compared to my occassional stutter where I repeat words for no apparent reason. (I think that my brain and fingers are just good freinds rather than having any real connection!).
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
But many years ago all of these qualifications would be granted exemption from applicable level in the professional qualifications, however the AAT doesn't list them all and a lot of the higher level qualifications which would give CIMA/ACCA foundation have been withdrawn such as the LCCI Executive Diploma. I am just wondering why the middle level qualifications still exist if they are not recognised for example by the AAT.
The OU courses look interesting....
. Got to meet a client in a few minutes, so am going to struggle getting the info to Steve by midday 
