I would like to know, which of the accounting bodies in the UK, like the ATT, ICB, IAB, or any other accrediting accounting body, would permit you, to start having bookkeeping clients, AFTER, you start studying with them?
Somebody wrote on this forum sometimes ago, that if you start studying with ICB for example, they would not permit you to start working with new clients, after you began studying with them? I am not talking about having a bookkeeping clients already, before you begin studying!
So which accounting bodies in the UK, will permit you to start working with new clients, if you so wish, after you have began your studying, with a particular accounting body?
I was not sure, if the question should be posted in this section of the forum, so if I have posted it in the wrong section, please receive my appologies!
Thank you in advance for the response!
DGA
-- Edited by dga on Monday 5th of September 2011 12:21:40 PM
with ICB the gap between starting studying and attaining level II needn't be that long. (ignore the time that trainig providers tell you these things will take and just do it from the books. Personally I think AAT books are excellent for studying ICB).
Once you reach AICB you can get PII and a practice certificate and offer bookkeeping services although there are restrictions on the scope of services that you are allowed to offer. Such as self assessment and Payroll require additional exams and filing final accounts is limited.
If you go the ACCA route you can offer bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll even as soon as you've registered with them but you cannot offer any sort of advice or file final accounts and cannot even mention anywhere that you have any connection with the ACCA. Trust me when I say that these restrictions make it pretty much impossible to run a business on this basis as clients think that bookkeepers are just cheaper accountants and want the same service for less money!
I'll leave it to others to fill in the gaps as far as AAT, CIMA and IAB are concerned.
Don't know much at all about practicing via the ATT I'm afraid. I know that Rob (Robh) has the tax technician qualification but he's not posted on here for quite some time.
Don't worry about posting in the right section of the forum. I think most of the old timers on here (l;ike me) just use the recent posts button to see what the latest posts are we we log back in.
Hope that this helps for starters,
talk later,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I may be wrong, as you'd need to check directly with the membership dept at the IAB, but I think as a student of the IAB you could set up as a bookkeeper but not advertise your services as IAB member in the same way AAT requirements (as only AIAB, MIAB or FIAB are permitted to do so, providing they are registered with the IAB for ML purposes). You'd need to be register with HMRC for ML.
Once you have gained sufficent qualifications to register as a AIAB, you could then apply for a certificate of supervison instead of the HMRC ML registration which would save you some money and allow you to advertise your services as a IAB professional member. The IAB allow you to do anything you feel competent in doing, without taking a specific exam for it, but they will require you have the appropriate PII cover to cover this work and if you can't obtain the PII cover then you can't undertake the work. You have to notify the IAB what work you are doing, with a copy of your PII when you apply for a certificate of supervision.
You cannot register with HMRC for MLR if you are registered with a professional supervisory body, even if your just a student.
The AAT don't seem to mention it in that paragraph, but I guess you would have to pay the £80 per year on top of student fees?
If you already have a practice with clients when you register with the ICB as a student, you can apply for special consideration and get MLR cover during your study.
This is only intended for those who are running a practice but have decided to gain qualifications. It would seem from other bodies you would have to give up your practice, or greatly reduce the services you offer, in order to study with them. The ICB recognises this is un reasonable and so developed the temporary supervision scheme to help.
What you cannot do is half way through your study decide to skip the course and set up a business, as your knowledge would be incomplete.
How do the ICB vet the applicant for MLR cover when they claim to already be in practice? and is PII still required? If so I presume they would have to provide proof
From you comments, does this mean that Shaun, who I understand from his past posts is a registered Student with the ACCA cannot be registered with HMRC for ML (which he is), and must apply to the ACCA for his practice certicate or he cannot be in business?
Frauke, as I understand it yes, as the HMRC is only a default regulator for those who cannot or will not join a professional regulator. However not sure why you would want to opt for HMRC supervision as they charge more than the professional bodies (the ones whos fees I know) and don't give any support.
I can get clarification for ACCA students if you like, unless ACCA say you have to register with HMRC and HMRC accept it, although this is not as I understand the rules.
Bill, they have to contact the ICB and explain their position. They then fill out an application form with their business details and sign a declaration. The supervision is valid for 1 year which should be enough for people with experience to sit the examinations.
They do not need PII, and cannot mention the ICB. When they are applicable for the full licence then they apply in the usual manner.
If you follow the flowchart, as a non practice certificate holding student member you end up down the bottom right hand side of the diagram indicating HMRC as the only option.
This is the 2008 version. I've seen a newer one but can't find it at the moment :
Members in the UK who provide accountancy services (within the terms of the Money Laundering Regulations 2007) which fall outside the meaning of public practice (for example bookkeeping) will, nevertheless, be subject to supervision regarding compliance with the anti-money laundering provisions under the Money Laundering Regulations 2007. In such cases, members may consider obtaining an ACCA practising certificate in order to be supervised by ACCA. Alternatively, members must register with HM Revenue and Customs or another body recognised for such purposes. Members outside the UK should check what obligations, if any, they have in this regard.
Frauke, you were begining to worry me a little on that one as it's one of those things that you believe 100% then get told a few times that you're wrong so begin to question your own understanding.
Thankfully in this instance, as shown above I am right and HMRC is the way ACCA expect you to go until you have a practicing certificate at which time you come in house.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thats OK shaun, I only mentioned it as James original comment said that "You cannot register with HMRC for MLR if you are registered with a professional supervisory body, even if your just a student."
I agreed that if you are a member of a professional supervisory body, then you cannot register with HMRC for ML - and you can choose with body you want to be registered with as long the other bodies agree with it.
It was the last few words of the statement James made that "even if you are just a student" - I did not think that was correct.
No problems and thanks for raising it as an issue anyway as its so easy to miss something in the smallprint and not even realise that you're not doing something completely by the book.
I just think of the number of times that several members have read the same sentence on the HMRC website completely differently and it's only by our discussions here that we really clarify matters.
Thanks again,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
SO does that mean as I am studying with AAT that I don't need to register for MLR under HMRC, despite the fact I am actually doing work for people based on my 15years experience in the profession, and have PII.
All these regulations and restrictions seem so confusing and contradictory.
You will also find discussion around this in other threads as it's quite a popular question on here.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thank you all, for the comments! Very useful and helpful, even though sometimes, things are not very clear for some questions, but the responses, are very useful!
Kind regards!
DGA
-- Edited by dga on Tuesday 27th of September 2011 10:29:26 PM
-- Edited by dga on Tuesday 27th of September 2011 10:33:53 PM