I'm an ACCA qualified accountant and am about to start my own bookkeeping business so that I can work from home. I've worked in industry for the last 18 years so I can't get my own practicing certificate (hence why I'm doing bookkeeping only).
I've noticed a few local rivals list self assessment tax returns on their list of services, but the ACCA say I can't do them without a practicing certificiate, even if the client signs and sends it off themselves. Does anyone know if there is a way around this?
What's the best way to start drumming up new business? What has everyone tried, and did it work or not? Local advertising, mail shots, joining local business forums, linking in with local accountancy practices - I'm not sure where to start!
Finally, for smaller clients I was just going to use Excel, but I am going to need something for bigger clients and a payroll system too. What does everyone use, and is there something you could recommend I look into?
I'm not sure about the first part of your question. I don't know if it's possible to join ICB as well which would allow you to get a practice licence to do bookkeeping and beyond (depending on exams and/or exemptions).
For the second part, I and many others here swear by VT Transaction+. It's fairly cheap, multiple company as standard and easy to use.
For the first part Shaun [Shamus], will no doubt be able give you a more detailed answer, when he's back from his office.
I would agree with Kris with regard to VT Transactions, as the best, most cost effective software for all types of entity. I would add for payroll 12Pay, as an excellent payroll software, again very cost effective, with an option to upgrade to a bureau edition when you exceed five payroll clients, so no need to fork out for 10+ client licence until you have gained a few
I'd imagine the only restriction that the ACCA can put on you is that you can't trade as a 'chartered accountant' without a practising certificate; I don't see that should prevent you from just trading as an accountant, though I'll stand corrected if the ACCA have rules that restrict trading in any form.
I would say, though, that being an ACCA you will qualify for full exemption from the AAT examinations (bar a very basic competence test), which entitles you to trade as a 'qualified accountant'.
Re the software, I've heard good things about VT. I also quite like the look of PTP software, which is basically a less advanced, cheaper version of Iris.
Thanks for the advice on the software. I'll look into those options.
I am also AAT qualified, but when I was younger and strugglling to cope on a trainee's salary while doing my ACCA I stopped paying my subs. Tut, tut, I know...
I've emailed the ICB to enquire about what I would have to do to register with them. I dread to think that after all these years I'll have to do exams again, but if that's what I need to do then I guess I've no choice.
The ACCA rules state that without a practicing certificate I can take accounts to TB, and do bookkeeping, ledger and payroll only. I can produce management accounts for internal use only, but the accounts cannot be used for third parties e.g. a bank. I cannot complete a VAT Return nor a Self Assessment tax return. I can practice as a bookkeeper, and can say that I am an accountant, but I cannot make reference to being ACCA qualified at all.
I'd welcome any other comments on the tax return/VAT issue, along with any advice on how best to start marketing myself and building up a client base.
Presumably there are bookkeepers out there who aren't a memeber of any body, and they're all happily doing this. I wonder if that's how my competition are doing it as they make no reference to any professional body on their website...
Before thinking about promoting yourself think carefully about positioning yourself as a bookkeeper or accountant.
The ACCA is a prestigious professional body so I would look to get your practicing certificate. I also think joining the AAT is a good move and possibly studying ATT so you are able to handle the tax aspects of small businesses.
Our thoughts on this is that bookkeeping is not a place to be if you want to maximise the opportunity. However, if you are happy to play second fiddle to accountants an accept a low hourly rate then I am sure local firms will love you and give you work direct or introduce you to their clients.
However, I wonder if you shouldn't set yourself up as a management accountant and look to work in a financial management role. You seem to have the experience to pull on. As regards systems, it depends on your strategy but I recommend looking at new online technology as it opens new ways of working with clients.
Once you have your positioning strategy sorted you can start to develop your marketing plan. Developing an effective positioning strategy is vital and makes the other aspects of marketing so much easier so I recommend reading Tim Williams' book, Positioning for Professionals.
Michael above applies logic to the situation but unfortunately there isn't much logic when it comes to being able to work on a self employed bookkeeper when you also come under the wing of the ACCA! If you sign up ACCA then you restrict your ability to work regardless as to what you call yourself.
I got a bit annoyed with the situation where under ICB membership you would be allowed to do something but because one is ACCA as well it overrides other affiliations.
Under regulation 8 you are very restricted as to the services that you can offer (as you've already encountered). It seems wrong that there is no difference in the rules between someone who has passed all of the exams and someone who'se only just through the fundamentals (even though the fundamentals are the equivalent of AAT level 4 so not to be sneezed at).
Unless you can get a compliant qualified accountant to supervise your work, the services that you can offer are restricted to bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll.
You cannot mention your ACCA affiliation at all.
And there's icing for the cake as well. Someone else on the site in your position (Maria Reed) posted a little while ago in relation to being AAT and ACCA and there's a whole other nightmare about needing to get an ACCA practice certificate when the AAT expects you to have one even if the ACCA wouldn't otherwise have expected you to have one.
Have a read of Maria's quite justified rant in this thread :
When you've had chace to read through the above just post a follow up note and we'll continue the discussion.... In brief though I think that there are an awful lot of very good IFA's and AIA's out there who started out doing ACCA but found the final hurdle impossible to clear.
Talk later,
Shaun.
P.S. Some excellent advice from Bob there as well but just to emphasise that until you get that elusive practice certificate management accountancy is also restricted by your ACCA status.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I don't think that getting an ACCA practice certificate is an option as to get it I'd have to go back and work in practice for a number of years. The whole reason I am looking into this is because I want more flexibility for my family life. The last thing I want is to be tied down to another full time job.
The ICB have replied to my email to confirm that I cannot gain any exemptions because of my qualifications as they were obtained over 10 years ago. They do however say that I may be eligible on the grounds of my experience, and have said that I could apply. Does anyone know of anyone who has been successful with this route? I am even thinking at this stage that if I were successul in joining the ICB I might note pay my ACCA subs therefore dropping out of there. Risky I know, but if I were to fail and go back into an employed role I could do so on the grounds of expereince rather than being a member of a professional body.
Thanks for the links to posts Shamus. I'll read through those tonight and get back in touch shortly.
-- Edited by Jo Gordon on Thursday 13th of October 2011 10:59:52 AM
Having read through them, my current thinking is that I might resign from ACCA. Given that I can't actually mention the body anyway, what's there to lose? I can still promote myself as a qualified accountant with over 20 years experience (or would I have to drop the qualified bit)? Presumably that would mean that I can do whatever I want with no restrictions - is that right?
Something that hit me last night is, am I overestimating what I can earn? I don't even know how much bookkeppers can earn...
I can't help but think that Bob might have something too. I could promote myself as a management accountant, but I'm not sure if there is much demand for that. Perhaps I could include bookkeeping, management accounts, year-end accounts, payroll, VAT, and self assessment tax returns. That would cover pretty much everything - provided I resign from the ACCA that is.
What are you thoughts now Shamus?
And I thought that this was going to be the easy bit!!!
-- Edited by Jo Gordon on Thursday 13th of October 2011 10:40:43 AM
The problem is that gaining that piece of paper from the ACCA took an awfully big chunk out of your life (and pressumably wallet). Can you really walk away from it so easily?
If you can, you mention above that you are also AAT. Even if you haven't gone all the way to MAAT (although I suspect you have) your ACCA membership gives you exemptions without even having to take the tests (which a PQ ACCA would to become an MAAT).
Considering the above it might be possible to go from ACCA without a practice certificate to MAAT MIP which to all intent and purpose is considered to be an accountant rathert than a bookkeeper... However, as discussed in one of the above links, it brings a whole other set of problems if you maintain your ACCA membership after converting over so to call yourself a qualified accountant (with an AAT hat on) it may be that you do have to move away from the ACCA.
Before making any decisions though also look at IFA and AIA memberships. Frauke who posts on here has close ties to the IFA and may be able to offer additional advice on that option.
Nothing against any other qualification, each body has their merits... but they're not ACCA and moving away from that qualification is a decision that will be down to you alone to make. All we can do is tell you about the burning hoops that you will need to jump through.
On the seperate question about what you can earn... As with accountants the income can vary dramatically from one practice to the next even within the same area.
It takes time to build up a client base during which time you will probably only aspire to earning the equivalent of minimum wage for the number of hourts that you need to put in.
The issue with ACCA made it impossible for me to earn a living at bookkeeping as I was not able to offer services with my ICB hat on that people who had only gone down the ICB route could at at the end of the day I find that what clients are really looking for are cheaper accountants.
I've now relaunched with a different business model where bookkeeping and Payroll are pretty much sidelines but the intention is that they will eventually become the bread and butter of the business... Well, maybe not the Payroll side as that's a lot of work for little return but it's a neccessary addon in order to give an all round service and that's what clients are looking for.
On here, even established bookkeepers often turn over less than £15k per annum. To make more money you need to be offering what I consider to be accountant services such as final accounts, management reports and tax returns.
Actually, I would go further than that and suggest that if you don't offer those services you will really struggle to find clients (you will find them but not in the volumes that you need to run a business).
Whilst I think about it, going back to your original post. Another vote for VT from me. I run VT Accounts which comes with VT Transaction+ and VT Cashbook included in the price. The reason that I went for the whole package is that I'm only happy with the work that I've done when I've seen it pushed all the way through to a final set of accounts with a full set of notes showing all the calculations.
VT Transaction+ does come with a balance sheet and P&L but personally I prefer to see how all of the fields were calculated... But that's just me, I still occassionally redo calculations to make sure that the calculator got them right! (doh).
Oh, and if you go for VT Accounts note that it's an Excel add on so you need to have Excel on your machine... What am I saying. What financial professional doesn't have Excel on their machine!
Hope that this reply helps although I suspect you now have more questions than when you started reading it!
All the best,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Dont see how you could call yourself qualified if you dropped of ACCA as you wouldnt then be qualfied.
I am not a member of any professional body at the moment but call myself an accountant. I am group accountant of a £12m business, teach SAGE and bookkeeping at a local enterprise business as well as setting up my own bookkeeping, accounting and tax business (hope to have the website live for the end of the month).
I already have a few clients having advertised on gumtree. None of them asked about my qualifications. In all honesty, joe public is just looking for someone competent to do their accounts and tax return.
The most important thing is that you have the experience to do what you want to do rather than necessarily having the piece of paper. I have worked with lots of people who have been qualified but hadnt a clue about what they were doing and equally have worked with people who arent qualified who know everything.
The main issue here I think is that in order to move forwards Jo needs to review his current position with the ACCA and after what it takes to get that qualification that's not a decision to be taken lightly.
Been there myself where one is pulling their hair out over regulation 8 but if you step down you can't simply come back later and reverse your decision. Although you can go back after jumping through yet more burning hoops (and I blieve retaking or reexempting some exams at full cost) it really has to be regarded I feel as burning your bridge behind you so you really, absolutley, definitely have to be 110% sure that you are making the right decision in stepping down.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Am I right in thinking that if I step down from ACCA, I can effictivley offer whatever services I want to? If a basic bookkeeping business will only turnover £15k a year, then I have to offer the whole service otherwise it's just not worth my while.
Surley I can still say that I am a qualified accountant even if I do set down. After all, I have passed all of the exams. The fact that I don't pay my annual subs to retain a bit of paper shouldn't matter.
I think you're right Mark. Joe Public is looking for someone competant at a decent rate. They don't know the difference between ACCA, AAT, ICB, XYX, 123, etc. Would he be bothered if I don't have a recognised body listed on my website? Incidentally, my local rival states on his website that he his part ACA qualified. Surely he shouldn't be offering VAT and tax returns under his list of services... Hmmm!
Another thought is - would the AAT take me back after go knows how many years??? That might be an option. I will also look into IFA and AIA.
I am going to a dinner next week, where someone who I know is going to introduce me to the partners of the largest accountancy practice in the area. I am hoping to gleam some informaiton from them, and if possible, I might be able to obtain some work through them. I think I'll decide what to do with my membership once I've met with them.
Not sure on the ICAEW / ICAS rules but I'm pretty sure that your rival is breaching their advertising rules.
I thought that ACA's were like ACCA in that they couldn't mention their status anywhere in marketing materials unless they had a practice certificate?
It's an unfortunate fact but yes. At the moment if you don't have any affiliation with a supervisory body then you can call yourself an accountant and offer whatever services you like (audit and insolvency work excepted). I'm sure that this will change and I know that ICB are working on getting things more set in stone although that's a completely seperate debate.
AAT will take you. If you're ACCA you can convert over straight to MAAT MIP so keep your qualified status... If not quite the level of qualified that you aspired to.
And yes, for the most part the qualifications are more about how we as financial professionals appear to each other than to Joe public who quite often just wants to believe that by coming to you they have nothing the fear from HMRC (if only that were true!).
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
....... Surely I can still say that I am a qualified accountant even if I do set down. After all, I have passed all of the exams. The fact that I don't pay my annual subs to retain a bit of paper shouldn't matter.
..........
I would agree with that statement. Whatever you do, you have still qualified as an accountant. You are just no longer a member of a particular association.
I think you definately need to get in touch with the AAT, as this sounds like the best route for you (IMO)
Bill
PS Told you Shaun would be able to give a detailed answer
People cannot claim to be part of a CCAB body if they are not but as you say, if you passed all of the exams are you qualified regardless as to whether you keep up your membership.
That seems to make the annual payment a qualification randsom rather merely payment for being able to continue to call yourself a member of a given body.
This is right up there with why passports cease to be valid evidence of identity once they expire!
I've just done a couple of t'internet searches but no joy on a satisfactory answer from anyone worth quoting from yet.... Watch this space for further developments.
Interested to hear other peoples views on this as well.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
