Major disappointment not being welcomed on to the forum, not even by the regulator who I can see from comments made is not a great lover of training providers.
Training providers are just like Bookkeepers and Accountants, we all provide a service and in all of the above there can be unscrupulous methods to gain business and all will be charged a different fee from different companies for the same service or course, so there is no ball park figure it is up to the customer to shop around for the best value on offer and yes there are sales methods used for all of the above. The point is how do you know how and who to trust? Regardless of INDUSTRY!!!!!!!
All training companies should listen to individual needs, its not just about selling a course, its about listening to the customer, we actually advised our ICB student of the year nominee NOT to do a course with us and advised to go straight to exam because after LISTENING to the student we established she did not need to waste her hard earned money doing a course she didnt need.
Training companies are like every other company, having to come up with new and initiative ideas to keep one step ahead of the competitor, but fact is fact, treat people as people and not a £ sign, give them sound advice and ask them to confirm this with the organisation they want to join before parting with any money. When you get it wrong admit you got it wrong without a yeah but syndrome.
Not all Training Providers are bad and to be fair training providers should not even be on forums and it puts them right in the potential students face, meaning it is unlikely that the said student will not shop around, but alas it is apparent that potential students do come on these forums and I offer advice that will and can be confirmed by the ICB, and with that said I have still not found a bad comment about our company or indeed the forum of the ICB
Hello David - welcome to the forum. Probably a bit pointless writing that now but there was 36 views of this post and not one response again.
I think Shaun's main problem with learning providers is the misleading information about earning potential. I've been on Training Link website so you can't be accused of that. Personally speaking, I went with Ideal Schools and am happy with my choice. I'm not sure the reason I chose them over Training Link. Must have been something important to me at the time (approx two years ago) as I can't see too much difference between the two just now.
I think only one learning provider has had any major negative responses on here and I think that was mainly down to their selling technique.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
welcome to the forum, (I'm assuming that I'm the regulator?).
Don't worry if it takes a few days at the moment for people to start issuing welcomes. This happens regularly on the site where people are busy but it's a freindly site and people always catch up eventually.
At the moment I'm setting up a new office and also preparing for the next batch of exams so although I do get to have a little go on here in the evening I don't get to respond to half of those that I would like to. But as mentioned previously, I do catch up eventually which at the moment tends to be Saturday mornings / early afternoon.
If the comment about no great lover of training companies was towards me, that's not actually true. There are many occassions on here where I've advised people to consider various companies. Just do a search for my userid and Premier Training, Ideal schools or Open University.
Training link get regular mentions in the same threads and generally in a good light (I cannot think of any occassions where it has not been). To my knowledge I've never said anything against yourselves but I've not dealt with you directly so am unable to pass positive (or negative) comments on training link and leave that to others who have.
There is one training company out there that does get an awful lot of bad press due to some unsavoury sales tactics and some shoddy training materials combined with extortionate prices... Not going to mention here which one but it doesn't take a lot of searching the site to see which one it is. I'm also pretty sure you know which one it is without having to search old posts!
However, as you indicate in your post training companies are not for everyone and where people would be better suited to alternatives I quite happily point people towards the right books to get them to where they want to be.
As Peasie rightly mentions I do have an issue at times where we have people turning to bookkeeping on the back of promises of limitless demand and high rewards. People put their redundancy money into a false hope of a new career path. The reality is that all too often their expectations of work are not even met with the courtessy of rejection letters as agencies are innundated with people believing that they will find wortk but without experience they just get filed straight into the big round under desk filing cabinet.
This site gives balance to peoples expectations and when they know the complete picture we help them to make the correct choice for them which tends to be different for almost everyone. For some the right choice will be a training provider, for others the books and for yet others this isn't the career that they thought that it would be. We've actually had cases where people have wanted to change to this career path because they believed that it was nine to five, five days a week... I wish. Take this career path and it's a lifestyle choice.
Anyway, appologies that your welcome has been a couple of days in coming but please be assured that no slight was intended.
Look forwards to chatting much more in the coming weeks / months.
kindest regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
As has been said David, this forums is very friendly, and if you stick around for any length of time you'll find that out for yourself. Having said that, we're all busy people too, many of us have businesses to run (or starting up), study to do or little (and sometimes not so little) people to take care of. We get round to posting when we can. I am probably more guilty that most of not responding to "I'm new" messages, but I am happy to offer advice on other things.
The thing I can't get my head round about your post is that it seems to be a rant that no one acknowledged your post, then in the last paragraph you say you don't think you should be on a forum :-S
I've only had dealings with one bookkeeping training company, and that was terrible. That might mean that some of my posts come across as anti training too, but that is not the case. Like Shaun I'm astute enough to know that just because one training company act like cowboys (although we're assured thats all in the past) that all the others are too.
Interesting post for your fourth, hope you stick around.
er .............. I think Kris meant to say "that does not mean that all the others are too" (I hope! )
I have to say that I understand where Kris is coming from. David, the culture of this forum is generally non combatitive (unlike some of the other accountancy forums, I could mention!). In that context your post came over as a little unhelpful. We are happy to welcome anyone who wants to contribute positively to the forum.
No point in inferring critisism where there isn't any. On the contrary, as you said yourself, there are plenty of positive remarks about training link here.
I look forward to reading your contributions.
Ray
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.................just an ICB student, at the moment.
I can understand where David is coming from but think that he jumped to the wrong conclussion.
Most of the time when newbies join the site they get an immediate welcome but David got nothing for his first few posts.
I think that many people who join the site assume that we're here all of the time and with some of the questions that we've had I think some believe that we're paid for the help that we give.
As regulars know, we come on here when we can and we answer what we can. At times posts go unanswered for a few days other times there's a response almost as soon as you've hit the enter button. Just really the luck of the time that you're posting.
I know where you're coming from on other accountancy sites comment. We have to be very careful to protect the freindly welcoming atmosphere that we have on here which is why I took the time to explain Davids misconception to him. Hope that he now realises that the lack of an immediate welcome was nothing personal.
Right, representative of a training company on site, tick, now, how do we coax a representative of the ACCA onto the site so that we can make them see the flaws in regulation 8. (as if that will ever happen!).
Talk later,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hello and thank you all for the warm welcome eventually lol.
I fully appreciate where you are coming from Shamus and for someone working as a course advisor and talking to people on the phone I am well aware of what certain providers say to people to close a deal, and this I feel is what makes companies like Ideal Schools, Premier and ourselves a little different to the rest. Coming from a background where customer service was a must I realise that for the smaller company it is not just about profit, it is about service, if the service is good then the customer returns, no rocket science in that theory, we have price, support response time and of course quality of material.
I am forever being asked the question If I do this course and gain the qualification will I get a job and what kind of salary can I expect". My answer is always the same and that is as follows. The majority of people who do our ICB courses do so with the intention of going self employed. Self Employed Bookkeepers if charging by the hour can expect between £10 and £30 an hour, some charge by the job and not the hour. If you are seeking employment from a company then the qualification you gain will give you the tools to apply for these jobs but not the experience and as I dont know you on a personal level the way you come across during interview is as important as your qualification. I explain that if going self employed they will need indemnity insurance, a practising licence and of course a web site. I also explain the costs.
Once qualifications are gained and all of the above is in place the really hard part is finding your clients, and this is where individuality comes into place. I keep referring to our ICB Student of the Year Nominee who only set her practice up in January of this year and I believe has 7 or 10 clients, gaining these clients by getting herself out there, attending seminars and using the ICB Facilities. We are meeting another student this evening whose photo and story will soon be on our website who after talking to me signed up to the ICB courses and has never looked back, she called to thank me personally and after listening to her story decided it would be good PR to meet with her, we are awarding her our initial Training Link Achievement Award. So there are success stories to be had, but I do take your point that there are exceptions to the rule. Once qualifications are gained never rest on your laurels.
The customer is king and not money and profit and Training Link is continually growing, the day profits come before a student is the day I leave but I know that day will never come and as such love my job, nothing better than knowing you have helped change someones life for the better and as such this job is a vocational hobby.
Thanks for the welcome guys.
-- Edited by TRAINING LINK on Wednesday 19th of October 2011 10:40:43 AM
Ideal are a good company I met the owner Al at the last conference I found him to be a really nice man and he is as honest as the day is long what the old school would discribe as a true gentleman, I think we offer something different which I wont go into as I am not on the forum for that. You dont get so many good comments by being rubbish at what you do and besides we are in direct competition with Ideal for this years ICB awards which I hope we win. Thanks for your welcome.
-- Edited by TRAINING LINK on Wednesday 19th of October 2011 07:39:08 AM
I used Training Link and it was the best decision I have ever made, you've changed my life! I am so much happier than I was and really enjoyed doing the training. A big thank you also to Angie the tutor who always responded to my emails with in hours, late at night and at weekends, I couldn't have done it without the quick turn around to my emails. Within 9 months of starting up I have 14 clients and I do my work around my little girls.
I knew it was you as soon as I read your post, didnt fool me with ES lol, so I had it wrong then I thought you had 7-10 clients you have picked up another 4 since the last time we spoke, well done. Might be an idea to post some comments to others about how you gained your clients and what methods you used, it is obvious you have something going for you. (oh yeah you trained with Training Link) Thank you for your kind comments and good luck with the ICB student of the year nommination, see you there.
Dave
-- Edited by TRAINING LINK on Friday 21st of October 2011 01:29:26 PM
As has been said David, this forums is very friendly, and if you stick around for any length of time you'll find that out for yourself. Having said that, we're all busy people too, many of us have businesses to run (or starting up), study to do or little (and sometimes not so little) people to take care of. We get round to posting when we can. I am probably more guilty that most of not responding to "I'm new" messages, but I am happy to offer advice on other things.
The thing I can't get my head round about your post is that it seems to be a rant that no one acknowledged your post, then in the last paragraph you say you don't think you should be on a forum :-S
I've only had dealings with one bookkeeping training company, and that was terrible. That might mean that some of my posts come across as anti training too, but that is not the case. Like Shaun I'm astute enough to know that just because one training company act like cowboys (although we're assured thats all in the past) that all the others are too.
Interesting post for your fourth, hope you stick around.
Kris
Hi Kris
Thank you for your comment and I should explain the reason for coming on the forum. I work as a course advisor and as such always give sound and accurate advice, never try hard sell tactics and ecourage people to shop around. I had a young lady call me who I was convinced was going to purchase our Payroll course but after going onto one of these forums she purchased off another training provider becasue of comments made by that said training provider and other members.
Knowing people do come on these forums looking for training and having lost a potential student because of it, I feel giving another perspective can only be of benefit to those members who are thinking of joining the ICB, so from a personal point of view I dont think Training Providers should be on public forums, they advertise and have websites for that, but from a professional point of view I would be foolish to ignore the strength of opinion on forums such as this. Hope that gives some explanation to my appeared double standard lol.
So you don't think training providers should be here,but if others are on forums gaining clients, even though you don't believe it's right, you'll do it too?
Perhaps it's just me, but that does sound extremely hypocritical.
I have no issues with your firmly held belief that training providers shouldn't sell their wares on forums such as these. In fact in some ways I agree. I think if anyone is on this forum only to sell they're here for the wrong reasons. I don't have issues if they can offer something to the forum and as a result of being helpful they make a few sales. I don't even have issues with the odd cheeky sales post.
I do find it extremely odd that with such apparently strongly held views that you've decided to abondon your principles for the chance of a quick buck.
Kris
EDIT: I've just had a look through all your posts so far and they other than your welcome threads they do appear to be all about self promotion. You may find you get on better with a simple link in your sig and start offering some great advice other than 'phone me so I can sell you something'. I'll try to reserve judgement for now.
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Friday 21st of October 2011 11:18:43 AM
Thank you for your response, I am not here to sell courses but to give advice and to encourage potential students to shop around with the hope that after doing research that said student will come back to us because they think we have ticked the right boxes, I do not recall in any post where I have stated I am here to make and I quote a "quick buck" but the written word is always down to personal interpretation. The fact remains that forums and network sites like Twitter and Facebook are now used by millions. My explanation to your earlier explained (or so I thought) the importance of forums, my personal views for which I am open about have nothing to do with that fact.
