Shaun (shamus the BKN Guru) has made an interesting point about the legalities of forum members posting derogatory remarks about their experiences with training providers, and to be fair a point I never even thought of.
For me open forums give the user a voice where their opinions can be heard, and as a consumer I myself pay for things like my annual holiday based on things I have read on forums. On a personal note as long as a posting is based on fact I cannot see a problem, but I can see Shauns point, love to hear the views of other forum members on this? Has anyone in the UK ever been sued because of a comment made on a public forum?
Bit scary, it has happened before on other forums I can see from a quick Google search.
However, like you say, if you just stick to the facts and you get them right it is unlikely to end in legal action.
For example: 'I bought this mug listed as next day delivery but it didn't turn up for 3 weeks' is not likely to end in any action as long as it is true.
But saying 'I used this company and they were rubbish, avoid them completely' is a bit too general.
In any case I assume they would have to argue the cost incurred due to loss of business or something, so views of the post and any drop in business would probably be taken into account.
The other topic brought up is giving technical advice but adding 'In my opinion' might not actually protect you, as your opinion is deemed professional (if you are one in the subject) advice, and you should not give professional advice unless you are happy with all the details given.
However, haven't had conclusive advice on this one so I guess it will wait until there is actually a court case.
the disclaimer gives some protection in the same manner as an "Hold Harmless" clause which is a defence against legal action. (see the judges notes to RBS vs Bannerman, Johnstone, Macklay and others (2002))
From my own perspective (like Bill) I always try to quote from other sources, espechially HMRC BIMs, Accounting Standards and the websites of supervisory bodies. However, that's not always possible and at times it has to be appreciated that this is a discussion forum where we look at various points and apply different takes on them.
There was a particularly good discussion in relation to the materiality of assets a year or so back which had no legal standpoint for people to quote from but really helped peoples understanding that what seems simple can often prove to be a complex minefield of different interpretations.
On the being sued front I think one of the major issues is that there is a risk that if it did come to court costs may not be awarded which is a way of inflicting punishment without guilt!
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
An interesting conversation. In the UK there is a defense to libel of fair comment, where the defamation amounted to an honestly held opinion and is based on fact. There was a comment earlier this year from Lord McNally where he said "The right to speak freely and debate issues without fear of censure is a vital cornerstone of a democratic society." I would agree with this comment.
There are a great many websites offering a platform to review products and services, surely these wouldn't be able to exist is offering comments and opinions was in some way illegal?
Kris you beat me to it, I was just going to ask your opinion.
I think your most likely safe, using fact along with a disclaimer.
However, for example, if you told someone VAT was 17.5% in your opinion, being that you are a professional you could still be liable.
Of course that is a rather daft example, as I assume any such claim would be put right by the other posters (unless it was made by Shaun, he is held in such esteem people might believe it )
ICBUK wrote:unless it was made by Shaun, he is held in such esteem people might believe it
Fear not James, The likes of Bill, Kris, Stuart, Sheila, Nick, Tony, Phil, etc. are always around to keep me on the straight and narrow .
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
The Wizard of Oz was held in high esteem 'til they pulled back the curtain lol.
All comments are made in jest, however if you find anything not to your liking and would like a "word" with the author, it's that fellow scarpering off down the street.
the author, it's that fellow scarpering off down the street.
Hi Neil,
no worries, sure that I can get my hands on a sniper rifle!
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Well there you have it folks! you can speak your mind on this forum without the fear of getting sued, you will however be shot on sight but your money is safe.
Kris you beat me to it, I was just going to ask your opinion.
I think your most likely safe, using fact along with a disclaimer.
However, for example, if you told someone VAT was 17.5% in your opinion, being that you are a professional you could still be liable.
Of course that is a rather daft example, as I assume any such claim would be put right by the other posters (unless it was made by Shaun, he is held in such esteem people might believe it )
Are you suggesting I have opinions on most things, James?
Actually, you're probably right. I think it's interesting to get rid of some of the confusion on this matter between libel and incompetence.
If I said that the rate of VAT was 17.5%, then I'd be an idiot, but not a libelous idiot. On the other hand if I said Shaun is a really poor bookeeper and his business rips people off, that would be libel. Partly because it's clear that Shaun knows his stuff and I have no dealings with his business from which to form such an opinion.
If I said that a certian training provider offered poor value for money and a terrible service, then that is not libel because it is my honestly held opinion based on my experience with them. There is also the cost to the business to consider. The pursuer would need to prove that the had a reputation which could be damaged (in this case that is really open to debate) and that the reputation had been damaged by a libelous comment.
I used to put disclaimers on some posts that the views expressed were my own HRA protected views. But in actual fact it doesn't matter what disclaimer you put on things if you break the law. Imaging going into Tesco with a sign round your neck saying "I reserve the right to shoplift", will it really get you off with pocketing a few tins of beans? I think not.
Similarly these cloak rooms in nightclubs amuse me. You know the ones who take a few pounds off you to keep your jacket and then try to escape their obligations in law by putting up a sign saying "We do not accept responsibility for lost or damaged items". Or the shops who put up signs saying "No Refunds Given."
I could go on all day, but I need to get back to work before one of my clients say I reserve the right not to pay you for being late.
Kris
-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Monday 12th of December 2011 03:01:20 PM
Well yes and that you know quite a bit about the law
My example was if someone took the advice and charged 17.5% they could claim against the poster for giving bad advice, but again law is never straight forward. This hasn't happend in a forum as far as I know but it did in a pub a couple of years ago and the 'professional' lost.
I agree with the point Shaun makes that it can be too easy to sue on the off chance you win, meanwhile the defendant wastes time and money defending a weak claim.
...However, that's not always possible and at times it has to be appreciated that this is a discussion forum where we look at various points and apply different takes on them.
That's a key point for me.
Also, when replying to a post, you are responding to the words written / facts as presented by the person asking the question.
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Tony
Responses are intended as outline only. Formal advice should be sort from your Institutes Technical Department or a suitably qualified Accountant.
It is a really fascinating subject matter. Those of us who shop on line I would have thought at some point would have looked on a consumer forum or customer feedback websites. So forums can make or break a company as far reputation is concerned. For the larger companies for every one unhappy customer there are 100s that are more than happy. So its just a numbers game and business is not really effected, could be more damaging to the smaller companies? Inevitably some business will lose custom because of forums but the upside is the better companies will gain business just for being good at what they do, cream rises to the top and all that. But Shaun made an interesting and valid point, so who decides that the written word on a forum cannot be deemed as libel or writing your personal opinion on a forum libellous? And as Kris pointed out does putting your own disclaimer at the end of your post really provide you protection? In the scheme of modern day life forums and the like are relatively new which is why there are so many grey areas, good topic for debate though and the link Kris posted is well worth reading. I see Neil was his usual comical self, your wasted on here you should be writing comedy for channel 5 lol, Keep it up!
Neil it was a compliment, I was saying your almost funny enough for TV lol in all honesty I love reading your posts as they nearly all have a one liner thrown in. Like I said wasted lol
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