I was going to post before you did, explaining to Janine that there would be a response to her post, being written as we spoke lol. (The severity of Janines frustration made me bite my tongue)
At the moment my actual interest in ACCA is the challenge of completion itself, like we have said before, it's like scouring the earth for the golden apple. The fact that i am interested in the subject matter is just a bonus lol.
It does seem awfully unfair that once i gain MAAT status the AAT qualification is basically locked away in a dark cupboard after enroling as an ACCA student.
On the bright side, you get a discount on annual subscription fees from the AAT if you are an ACCA student
WHOOPPEE-DOOOOO
Neil.
(It's nearly as frustrating as the AAT-ACA fasttrack scheme, where upon closer inspection you have to be a grad with a 2:1 or whatever + full AAT, what about the little people like me?)
-- Edited by Spamkebab on Friday 2nd of March 2012 04:45:46 PM
I'm a fully qualified ACCA member (2 years post Qual) working in industry and have done for many many years (15 years in the accounting function environment) and 9 years as number 2 to the FD. I have basically done everything that an FC of a SME would do, to include payroll (with some HR thrown in for good measure). I have produced draft statutory accounts for reivew by auditors, managed annual audits (including producing all of the audit file) and corporation tax packs for submission to a 'Big 4'.
So, what exactly can I do in my own capacity? Am I able to 'go it alone' offering services to small business clients?
From reading the ACCA website (trying not to fall asleep), it seems like for all of my hard work, experience and effort there is a lot of 'red tape' stopping me from doing anything. Does this mean I can never work for myself utilising my hard earned ACCA qualification? Can I even use the letters 'ACCA' after my name? (on CV, on linked in? or anywhere?)
I feel rather disillusioned by it all if I'm honest
if you've done your two years post qualification then surely you should be able to gain a practice certificate?
Is it that the ACCA are not regarding the two years as relevant because they were not directly under a qualified accountant or is this something to do with working in industry.
I do appreciate your frustration and there have been several discussions on here (mostly with me in them) in relation to the restrictions placed upon us by regulation 8.
I know that some have ended up walking away from the ACCA in frustration which is a real nightmare for anyone who does indeed take the long walk. The qualification is too hard won to walk away from even though at times it does seem to be a ball and chain stopping you from achieving what you need to.
One thing that I find quite ridiculous is that as a student member of the ACCA one can offer bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll services (no tax, no advice, no accounts). It doesn't matter whether you are studying to take paper F1 or whether you are an associate whose passed all of the exams and have oodles of experience. You are basically regarded from the ACCA perspective in exactly the same light until you are able to get a practice certificate.
Various, almost unmentionable, options exist. For example you could use your qualification to move to the IFA (AFA status) with a practice licence. Or you could go straight to MAAT MIP if you wanted.
Neither of those are the qualification that you have fought so long and hard to acquire but they are options. I don't know what the current situation is with CIMA as battle lines are drawn up there with the ACCA refusing to now acknowedge the CIMA qualification as equivalent for a transfer to membership of the ACCA... Maybe it's the same the other way around?
One thing worth mentioning is that if you get a practice licence through anyone else the ACCA rules still take precedence so, if you were allowed to produce final accounts under (for example) an AAT practice licence, mere membership of the ACCA means that the service that someone who has only done AAT is considered beyond your skill level... Go figure!
We had one poster on here who mentioned that merely registering with HMRC as an agent by a qualified ACCA member without a practice licence was a disciplinary matter!
I found very quickly that you really can't make any money out of the restricted services that you are allowed to offer on a freelance basis under regulation 8 as clients basically want a full service rather than using a bookkeeper and an accountant.
A bookkeeper qualified with the ICB can file accounts. The entirety of the ICB qualification is within ACCA paper F3 but someone who has passed ACCA is not yet deemed competent by the ACCA to file SME accounts.... You can scream and stamp your feet but I've found that nobody actually listens to us.
Sure that this is not the answer that you want but just some words of support to let you know that there are a lot of other, equally frustrated students and members out there who see no way from qualification to practice.
The reality I fear will be that like many others before you, you may end up simply using your ACCA qualification as an entry ticket into another body.
Sorry, but welcome to the forum and hope that you enjoy it here,
kind regards,
Shaun.
P.S. Neil, if your reading this, the difficulties associated with gaining a practicing certificate should not be confused with a qualification which to my mind is second to none. Even if you don't end up using it just achieving it is enough to set you appart as in your own mind you will always know what you have achieved even if you can't tell anyone else about it... Well, except on CV's.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
one ray of hope was shone by James the other week in that he indicated that there may be some hope for ACCA people taking other qualifications (he was speaking from the ICB perspective but I read it that such would be equally applicable to any qualification) that provided that one does not mention ACCA or acknowledge any link to the ACCA then they may relax regulation 8 for those with multiple supervisory bodies.
That would be absolutely perfect for so many of us as ACCA gets you straight to MAAT MIP without any other exams.
Unfortunately though I'm not sure of the statement as it's certainly not something that I've heard mention of anywhere else, but then again, James does move in higher supervisory body circles than you or I so who knows what insider gossip he may be party to.
We can only hope that what he says comes to pass but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Right, off bidding on some more accountancy books on Ebay (I think I'm gonna need a bigger house at this rate!)
Talk later,
Shaun.
P.S. Darn you for directing me to that IFRS book. I followed the author links for Steven Collings and got to Interpretation and Application of International Standards on Auditing which even at 35% is still £42.25 which is a lot more than I want to pay for 685 pages.... But it's recommended by Lisa Weaver who'se the ACCA examiner for the advanced audit paper so I know it's good... No, no... I'll be good and buy ten books that I don't want/need instead of one that I do! (never mind the quality, feel the width!)
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
That's ok Shaun, after reading some of the dummies books examples on Amazon i have now got a copy of Sage Accounts for dummies on my Kindle. I've had to ban myself from the internet, what's worse is that with Amazon my details are stored so it's a one click buy.
This weeks tally: 50 Business Ideas..........(down to you so now we're even)
Warm Bodies
IFRS for Dummies
Sage Accounts for Dummies (Kindle version) This actually covers the parts that i dont use everyday like month end and year end, plus managing certain problems.
P.S Steve Collings posts quite regularly on the AAT forums, (which are quite rubbish BTW) and was so kind as to post the link to his book at the lower price. Nice fella.
- Import/Export. How to get started in International Trade.
The first two are useful for paper P2 studies as audit questions are aimed at finding what companies have done wrong whereas P2 is all about doing it in the first place so two perspectives on the same issue.
The London School of Business & Finance pocket notes was because I want to know what they're like and you seldom see them come up for sale.
the Get through guide pocket notes was a similar story but more out of morbid curiosity as to whether the pocket notes could be anywhere near as bad as the study texts (and for 99p not exactly going to break the bank to find out!).
The trade books are because it's an area of weakness in my business knowledge and I hate having those... No doubt they'll just sit on a shelf unread like so many other brainwave buys of mine... Must get it into my head that information does not transfer by osmosis. You actually have to open and read the books... THEN AGAIN!!! An ex girlfreind of mine used to sleep with the study text of a paper under her pillow the night before an exam and she passed every exam at first sitting so there may be something in the idea of absorbing information in that way (lol).
The big question here is how on earth do you find time to visit the AAT forums!
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I had 'banked' my 36 months experience prior to passing my final exams so I was able to apply for full membership immediately after receiving my last exam results and full membership was granted within a month (march 2010).
From what I can gather, I would need to gain a further 2 years experience after full membership? which would have to be gained with an ACCA approved employer. My employers were not ACCA approved, the FD was ICAEW so was able to sign off the required 36 months experience to apply for full ACCA membership, however I didn't think this would also meet the 'sign off' requirements because a) it wasn't an ACCA approved employer and b) it wasn't an Accountancy practice. Also another factor to consider is a) during the 2 years post qual I went off on maternity leave and b) I left my employer in April 2011 to do 'interim work'(although it is of a similar nature, it is for an ACCA approved employer but the contract ends July 2012).
Have I interpreted the 'rules' correctly?
If so, does that mean my next job move would have to be to an ACCA approved employer in order to even consider applying for a practice certificate?
any thoughts on where I should go from here?
Thanks all
Jannine
-- Edited by Cloudhopper on Sunday 4th of March 2012 08:42:29 PM
Have you thought of asking the FD of the company you work for, if they would apply to join the ACCA Approved Employer scheme? They may even be able to have the application backdated.
Some years ago I met a IFA member, whose business (an IFA practice) had applied as they had a staff member who wanted to study ACCA and were approved.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Sunday 4th of March 2012 11:15:37 PM
The section below may be of particular relevance but you will need to read the whole document (it's not a big one) as there is a lot in there relevant to your situation.
Where can I do my practical experience? For the ACCA practising certificate, practical experience must be gained with an ACCA Approved Employer that has been awarded approval under the practising certificate development stream (Approved Employer-PCD).
that part really is pretty soul destroying stuff as there are not that many approved employers available which almost makes gaining membership seem to be the easy bit!
However, from your post it sounds as though you will have some of the experience requirement even if not all of it yet.
When you do get your practicing certificate get yourself approved employer status and I'll let you hire me
Hope that you find a ray of hope hidden in the above link,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
If you are currently with an approved employer, can you not start the ball rolling with them?
As far as future employment is concerned, I think that ACCA will consider backdating an application for Approved Employer status (ACCA backdated mine for 1 year) but I think you'll have a problem with trying to get previous employer approval.
When looking at future employers, if they are not approved you could look at their potential for future approval. The key is having a qualified Principal. You'll also need a supervisor but this person doesn't need to be an accountant. I've heard that you could approach an external auditor to act as Principal, although I'm not sure how easy or practical that would be.
Not being in practice doesn't matter if you can prove that you have gained the relevant experience in industry. I obtained ACCA membership with my present employer (in industry) and I got a practising certificate a few months ago. Initially, they weren't an ACCA approved employer but I was determined to get my practising certificate so we applied for, and got, the ACCA Approved Employer Scheme status.
I was lucky in that my Principal was ICAEW, although my supervisor was not. I have to say that ACCA were extremely helpful and I wouldn't hesitate to have a chat with them about possibilities. Don't give up hope!
- Qualified through working in an internal audit department for 3 years within Investment Banking, before moving into a few management reporting roles.
- I have achieved Member status in February 2010.
- My most recent job was working as a Project Accountant/PMO within IT projects in Investment Banking.
- I went to apply for my ACCA Practising Certificate and based on my employer being an "approved" status and documenting some of work I have done, the ACCA have advised me I could potentially apply for a "General Accounting Services Certificate". I.e I cannot do full audits and there is some other exclusions.
I understand my experience is not within Practise, so this makes complete sense to me. I wouldnt want a dodgy accountant advising me after all without the proper expertise!
I have documented 1 and half years experience although it has been challenging finding someone who is qualified with another institute working within a Technology area of the Bank.
Alas, I have now found out that the person signing off my forms "Principal" is in fact a Retired member of CIMA....which is frustrating as I believe the ACCA have some rules around this.
I have recently been made redudant from my old position and am looking to seriously pursue this practise route as a longer term career path.
So here are my questions:-
1) Does my existing work experience I have documented and got signed off, invalid? Is there anyway of making this experience count towards getting a general accounting services certificate?
2) How do I approach a firm to gain this experience? Should I choose a large big 4 firm, or a small accountancy practise to learn from? I am conscious that my industry knowledge has left me somewhat rusty in regards to company accounts and general tax knowledge.
3) How long will I need to perform this role in order to get the Practising Certificate and go independent?
4) The biggest challenge for me alas is the significant salary drop I will have. While I'm willing to make this work, and I am prepared that sometimes you have to take side steps to reach your goal, I'm concerned about the significant decrease in living standards (having recently had a small child). Realistically what would be the salary ranges in London and the South East for someone of my level?
5) Is this a goal worth pursuing or am I being stupid for doing so? I always thought working towards this would be a valuable skill that would be transferable if I moved abroad at a later stage too....but I must admit I am less sure now.
Any advice comments would be appreciated. Apologies for the essay or if I have posted in the wrong section.
