Hi there, I want to take my career/life in a new direction and I was hoping you could help. I like numbers and spreadsheets and logic and maths. I got a B in my maths GCSE (amongst 8 others) and that's about as far as I got with my education. I have used a couple of accounts packages in the past in various jobs (CFP estate agents software, Quickbooks and an old version of Sage) and I enjoy Excel and figuring out formulas to use, especially for my commission calculations when I was an estate agent.
So today I had a small epiphany...I would like to be a self employed bookkeeper/accountant (not 100% sure what the difference is) and basically 'do the books' for small businesses. I'm 31 and I don't really want to be spending the next 5-7 years working towards a qualification or be a career accountant working in a practice. I want the freedom to work around a family once I have kids and I want to start as soon as possible. I am a quick learner so I think the best option is to put aside a few hours every evening and just get on with it.
So having read a few previous posts I have narrowed it down to 2 options...ICB or AAT. Bearing in mind my plans for my qualification once I have it, which do you think I should go with? Who do you suggest I learn with? Is online the best option for me and how quickly can I finish and start working for myself?
If you want to be self employed as quickly as possible i would suggest doing the ICB, as this is the quickest way to get a practice licence, and the ICB is very geared towards self employment rather than employment.
Although it doesnt have to be an either or, you can do the ICB and then go on and do other things e.g AAT or even ACCA, you are young enough to have a long career in bookkeeping ahead of you. But there is nothing to stop you staying with the ICB, and adding to your services offered with payroll and self assesment.
I am sure others will be along later with their thoughts, but let us know how you get on.
Nick
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
I agree with everything Nick says as it sounds like you're foremost criteria is the quickest route to be a self-employed bookkeeper. That was mine too.
As to how long it would take to get your ICB practice licence, I would say that would depend on how quickly you can sit and pass the exams.
To apply for an ICB practice licence you have to be at least an'Associate', which means passing levels 1 & 2.
Level 1 is done online from home and you get instant results then you can go onto level 2.
Level 2 (2 parts - you can do both side by side)
1-Manual bookkeeping is done at a local centre which you book online for a time and date that suits you. You instantly know if you have passed or failed but your actual % can take up to 4 weeks to come through.
2- Computerised bookkeeping is done from home. You purchase your exam which is sent to you and you have 2 weeks to return it for marking. Your results can take up to 4 weeks to come through from the date they receive it.
Once you have passed Levels 1 & 2 and upgraded your membership to 'Associate' you can apply for your Practice Licence which can take up to 4 weeks from the date they receive your application. The 4 weeks will fly by because there is so much more that has to be figured out and planned, etc.. in running your own business.
Personally it took me 4 months from start to receiving my practice licence. It could have been shorter but I did my courses with an online training provider & had to wait for my assignments to be marked before the next one could be submitted. To be honest at the time I didn't realise I didn't need to go through a training provider. On reflection I still think it was a good idea to go through a training provider as it gives structure and confidence that you're ready for the exams also that despite my years of experience I still had to adjust to the way ICB did things and their terminology.
Thank you Nick and Brigitte, your responses have been very helpful and have confirmed my instinct to go with the ICB. Who knows I may take it further in the future but for now it's exactly what I need.
Thank you Nick and Brigitte, your responses have been very helpful and have confirmed my instinct to go with the ICB. Who knows I may take it further in the future but for now it's exactly what I need.
they are very blurred lines between the two with Accountants doing bookkeeping and bookkeepers doing accountancy.
Accountants will be ACCA or ACA level either by examination or working to that level in a relevant practice (so QBE). Everyone else is to my mind a bookkeeper.
There is however no reason that one cannot move from Bookkeeping to accountancy and that is in fact encouraged buy the likes of the ACCA who pretty much define the work of a bookkeeper in regulation 8 (what accountants are allowed to do before they are accountants).
Namely bookkeeping is :
Bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll.
Absolutely no advice, no final accounts and no tax work (there is debate over whether bookkeeping also extends to self assessment which following a discussion on the site about a year back I feel that it does).
The above is why I feel that the ICB could shoot themselves in the foot if they succeeded in getting bookkeeper defined in statute as that by implication would mean that the ICAEW and ACCA who have been trying for years to get accountant protected would then have the ammunition to take all of the well paying fee work and protect it from bookkeepers.
As mentioned at the start of this reply though the terms are not protected and it is still a case that people can venture into the others territory provided that they are allowed to do so by their supervisory body and PII.
To me though the demarcation line between the two professions is advice, filing and tax work.
HTH,
Shaun.
-- Edited by Shamus on Friday 16th of November 2012 02:31:38 PM
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I would like to be a self employed bookkeeper/accountant (not 100% sure what the difference is)
A Bookkeeper does the initial recording of invoices, receipts, payments etc and from that information the Accountant can produce the Financial statements (Balance sheet and Profit and Loss).
I hope someone can explain this better than I have! I think a Bookkeeper isn't allowed to produce Financial Statements but an Accountant is. A Bookkeeper can prepare and submit VAT and do up to trial balance (I think!)
Accountants will be ACCA or ACA level either by examination or working to that level in a relevant practice (so QBE). Everyone else is to my mind a bookkeeper.
AAT are also accountants, albeit a bit more blurry.
Accountants will be ACCA or ACA level either by examination or working to that level in a relevant practice (so QBE). Everyone else is to my mind a bookkeeper.
AAT are also accountants, albeit a bit more blurry.
bone of contention for years that one. (#2, #3)
Some bookkeepering bodies regard them as accountants (see some of the ICB comments re not accepting those with accountancy qualification (where they include AAT) due to not being able to pass ICB bookkeeping exams. (winner of the most dubious statistics that nobody will allow for the data to be seen award))#1.
The bodies at the top of the tree do not regard AAT qualified people as accountants (#4) but rather the accounting technician qualification being an excellent step on the right road to becoming one.
So, does that make AAT the equivalent of purgatory?
lol,
Shaun.
#1 Shamus, winner of the how many brackets can be (legitimiately) fitted into one paragraph award
#2 note that I did say in my post ACCA, ACA level so I was including CTA's, CIPFA, CIMA, etc.
#3 IFA is a strange one to know where to put as many of the members passed their exams with other bodies but took up a practicing certificate with the IFA.
#4 Or for that matter each other. Have you ever witnessed a meeting of an ACCA and ACA person. The assumption seems to be that the ACCA peson is a lesser life form.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Well there's a slogan for a new t-shirt AAT - The equivalent of purgatory.
lol.
Better at least though than the PQ "I love tax" ones (with a little heart for love).
Couple of bumper sticker ideas to go with it :
- Failed your ACCA? Have you thought about a career in internal audit?
- Passsed your ACCA but finding accountancy just too exciting? Have you thought about a career as an Actuary?
Now that should be the real test to determine whether or not you are an accountant. If you understood those two suggestions your definitely an accountant. lol
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I had several technical debates with Actuaries at one of the Scottish Pension companies (I even won a couple of the debates) and I must say that I feel you need to be a certain sort of person for that job.
Basically the sort who see's (knows and remembers) every tree rather than the people like myself who see a forest.
Its not a job that I could do... No rephrase that... Its not a job that I would want to do.... Although, you do get to play with spreadsheets a lot... Nope, I have an interest level that goes from fine detail to can't be arsed very quickly so the roles not for me.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
So are you going to ACCA tattooed on you when you pass Neil? And if you do are you going to post a picture of it on the BKN (So longs it not on your bum)!
got this vision now of Neil with an ACCA tramp stamp. (tattoo accross the base of the back).
I now need alchohol to wash away that image....
Where's that bottle opener...
Talk tomorrow.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Saw an advert for a finance manager for a solicitor practice wanted an ACA. Speaking to recruiter, No consideration for any other qualification including ACCA or CIMA or relevant experience.
yes, it was an early one for me. My brain was in serious need of a good defrag as just too cluttered after a full week.
Hi Neil,
You had me at respected.... lol.
I got the term from "How I met your Mother" Ted gets drunk, goes off with a goth girl and when he wakes he's got a butterfly tat on his lower back which Barney Stinson refers to as a Tramp Stamp.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
